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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikal View Post
    Another interesting thing I found out. It’s been mentioned several times that the XX was Arctic Cats #1 UTV seller. They sold 4500 in 2018 which compared to all other manufactures is sad. But today I read that Arctic Cat just submitted a recall on all Havocs built between Jan 2018 & April 2019 for front suspension arms breaking. This recall covers all 1700 Havocs sold. Yes that’s right in 16 months they sold 1700 Havocs.

    Textron paid $247 million in cash to buy Arctic Cat. Their two biggest sellers sold less then 6500 units total. Do the math, you will quickly see that Arctic Cat will not survive and Textron will not keep a company that can’t turn a profit.

    With a little research into GSA contracts i'm sure you would find a Text Ron order or two. They are defense contractors public sales are just a small slice of the pizza
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Cat View Post
    With a little research into GSA contracts i'm sure you would find a Text Ron order or two. They are defense contractors public sales are just a small slice of the pizza
    More of a reason for them to ditch the UTV/Offroad division and focus on what brings in the money.

  3. #33
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    I didn’t know Arctic Cat had an Military div? But they all have Military divisions, Are you sure your not just seeing Textron? Textron is in several parts of the Military with their aerospace divisions. Polaris being the biggest Military contractor in the recreational market. The company I work for builds a component that both BRP & Polaris are using, and Polaris wants to use it in a Military application. Whole new can of worms!

    The thing is each division of a company is really a separate company under a corporate umbrella. (Aka Textron Specialized Vehicles Inc,) One division can & does support another. But if the UTV division is only selling 6500 units of the two top machines you offer, and guys like Polaris are selling around 65K of just the RZR??

    This is just my opinion, but my guess is if within 2 years, they don’t produce a profit. We could be hearing that Textron is selling off the Textron Specialized Vehicle div, maybe keeping the Snow Sled part of Arctic Cat, if it’s performing, or selling it as part of a package. I hope I’m 110% wrong and they fix the business and go huge! I’d love to see the Gen 2 & 3 of the XX.

    Greenlee was another Textron company that we work with. It was very profitable, yet Textron sold Greenlee & subsidiary companies last year to Emerson for 810 Million.

    BTW I read when doing some searching that Polaris was expected to spend $260 million in just R&D for their recreational division. That’s hard to compete against!
    Last edited by Nikal; 06-07-2019 at 11:49 AM.

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  5. #34
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    It amazes me how individuals expect a company ( textron) to turn a very failing company (Arctic cat) into a profitable one like Polaris, can am, etc.. in a year and a half. Good luck. Lol. I would think the ceo’s Of textron know that’s not possible and are willing to take losses so the company (arctic cat)so it has time to grow into one. That’s probably why they are under a internal reconstruction right know. Even on the snowmobile side they are doing it. Dealers can’t even get new sleds this year for there show rooms. Be hard for everyone at this time in the industry to over take or equil Polaris. Arctic cat (textron) is pretty much starting over. IMO there hear to stay.
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  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Njorg View Post
    It amazes me how individuals expect a company ( textron) to turn a very failing company (Arctic cat) into a profitable one like Polaris, can am, etc.. in a year and a half. Good luck. Lol. I would think the ceo’s Of textron know that’s not possible and are willing to take losses so the company (arctic cat)so it has time to grow into one. That’s probably why they are under a internal reconstruction right know. Even on the snowmobile side they are doing it. Dealers can’t even get new sleds this year for there show rooms. Be hard for everyone at this time in the industry to over take or equil Polaris. Arctic cat (textron) is pretty much starting over. IMO there hear to stay.
    Honda entered the watercraft market with a great product. The problem was the market was already flooded. Honda pulled out within a few years. Big companies can only take a loss for so long. If they are only selling 6500 units no amount of marketing is going to significantly change that number. When you have Polaris, Can Am, Honda, Yamaha and soon to be Kawi coming out with new models in various segments a small player does not have much of chance. Textron had a chance to attack the market aggressively when the Wildcat XX was introduced and instead took baby steps. The 4 seater should have been ready to roll within 6 months and the turbo model within the following year.

    The sport market has plenty of choices and the odd man out is AC/Textron.

    The utility market they have no prayer - Polaris, Can Am, Kaw, Honda, Yamaha, John Deere and others own the market.
    Last edited by sand shark; 06-07-2019 at 03:04 PM.
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  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by missiondude View Post
    In other words, is anything on that car stock?
    My guess is "not much".
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  8. #37
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    The 4xx will more than likely will be released when the Robbie Gordon/Textron lawsuit is settled

  9. #38
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    Lawsuit?

  10. #39
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    I just saw that too. No idea what the suit is based n as you need to sign up & pay to read it. It looks like it might be multiple things, as there are lots of exhibits.

    I did notice that the 2020 XX no longer has the RG Pro suspension decal on it. Also Robby Gordon is not mentioned on any of the literature like previously. I wonder if his contract with Arctic Cat is up in 2020? How would this effect his strangle hold on the patents? Could this be why they have postponed the release of the XX4 and other model XX’s?

    Was told by Todd Romano a while back that a Rock Crawler version, turbo version & a factory 72 inch version was planned.

  11. #40
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    If Gordon is suing Textron...I would believe it- this has been his M.O. since he started to make his racing a business.
    Textron should pay him off and move on...Artic Cat probably expected this when they went into bed with him. Textron probably had no idea when they took over...or had their fingers crossed.

  12. #41
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    The lawsuit will make things interesting.

    Which website did they mention the lawsuit?

  13. #42
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    Website with lawsuit. You must sign up & pay to get info. Anyone who’s friends with an attorney might be able to have access.

    https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/27622761/Speed_RMG_Partners,_LLC_et_al_v_Artic_Cat_Sales,_I nc_et_al
    Last edited by Nikal; 06-10-2019 at 04:53 PM.

  14. #43
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    Here's my opinion FWIW

    RGM designed and built the best SXS of the time and told Textron to reproduce it. Textron cut corners and ended up with the problems that they have. RGM addresses those problems with their builds and now pretty much the only issue is the weak water pump impeller that Yamaha decided to use. Now RGM is working on that issue. It is pretty much the only problem they have racing them now which sucks because Yamaha should have stepped up and fixed it right away.

    All RG wants is for things to go the way he wants them to go. I know that sounds arrogant but it would be pretty easy if the people involved would just do what they said they would do. I heard people refer to him as 'Mr. Optimistic' and I would say that is pretty accurate. RG has a vision of what could be, and believes that if it is possible then it should happen. He wants the XX to succeed. His people want the XX to succeed. We all want the XX to succeed. Textron seems to be the only ones that can't put their egos aside and admit they f-ed up a good design.
    Total Loss likes this.
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  15. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by sand shark View Post
    The lawsuit will make things interesting.

    Which website did they mention the lawsuit?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikal View Post
    Website with lawsuit. You must sign up & pay to get info. Anyone who’s friends with an attorney might be able to have access.

    https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/27622761/Speed_RMG_Partners,_LLC_et_al_v_Artic_Cat_Sales,_I nc_et_al
    Hmmm, I ride with an attorney from time to time...
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  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRAWLR View Post
    Here's my opinion FWIW

    RGM designed and built the best SXS of the time and told Textron to reproduce it. Textron cut corners and ended up with the problems that they have. RGM addresses those problems with their builds and now pretty much the only issue is the weak water pump impeller that Yamaha decided to use. Now RGM is working on that issue. It is pretty much the only problem they have racing them now which sucks because Yamaha should have stepped up and fixed it right away.

    All RG wants is for things to go the way he wants them to go. I know that sounds arrogant but it would be pretty easy if the people involved would just do what they said they would do. I heard people refer to him as 'Mr. Optimistic' and I would say that is pretty accurate. RG has a vision of what could be, and believes that if it is possible then it should happen. He wants the XX to succeed. His people want the XX to succeed. We all want the XX to succeed. Textron seems to be the only ones that can't put their egos aside and admit they f-ed up a good design.
    While I agree with your assessment, there is one additional factor you did not include...when RG does not get what he wants, he tends to fight back with lawsuits...instead of negotiating in good faith it appears. A lot of factors go into producing a vehicle...if engineers had their way all the time- vehicles would be VERY different...then the govt would step in and mess up everything anyway....as I say MANY factors. Should RG magically take over production of the XX, it would fail- I have no doubt.
    Designing and building a vehicle is one thing...selling it for a profit is another...ask Elon.

    As for the water pump impeller- first I heard of this...what is the issue?


 
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