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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I ordered a WC last summer but my asshole dealer decided at the last minute not to carry the line. Since then I've been having a lot of second thoughts on what vehicle to get and was hoping to get some feedback from different people's perspectives.

I ride exclusively in Baja and do a lot of long distance rides. A short one day is 100 to 200 miles. In Nov. I did 2600 miles. Late this year I hope to do a 5000 mile/30 day ride. I am regularly in a region where the next human is 30 miles away, sometimes 50. Hence, quality is the top requirement. Next is power. I like lots of it.

Here's the deal. A WC will cost me $20k or more by the time I get it ready for the trail. But several companies make these mini buggies that have 180 HP and at least as much wheel travel as a WC. I don't have experience with them so I'm clueless in terms of their quality, etc. They are a little larger than a SXS, cost $35K, and don't have 4wd. But they do come out the gate with monster power!

Here is a list of builders I've been in conversation with.

Predator Motor Corporation

King Sand Cars

Sinister Sand Sports - Sand Rails and Buggy's HOME

The Predator runs a Chevy ecotec 4 cylinder that is bullet proof. Lot's of people racing them and they are cheap. The other 2 companies use a Hayabusa motorcycle engine that people swear by.

I know there is a big price difference but other than that what do ya think?????
 

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I went with the x18s 200hp full cromoly chassis it is built for baja talked to the team that raced the baja 1000 and won in 2009 not one part failed and they ran it hard, amazing if you ask me 1000 miles on one belt of extreme racing they have a 2011 car right now for 32k with a one year warranty you can't go wrong with car it's proven to be bullet proof racing baja 1000
 

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I think for that type of riding I'd go with the X18 as well. I could be wrong but the other two are more of a Sand Car and aren't build to take that kind of punishment. The Hayabusa motor has a lot of HP but from what I understand you really have to keep the RPMs up.
 

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If you want something that's Baja tough and reliable as a granite boulder, you need to call John Mosely of Mosebuilt.

He's building a 4wd KOH style Ultra4 style crawler/truck that is waaaay beyond the X18. Think Toyota V6 or V8, using the entire stock Toyota engine/tranny/transfer case and diffs, Ford axles and CVs, with boxed upper and lower A-arms front and rear. Carry 1 upper arm and 1 lower arm, and you have replacement arms for all 4 corners, they are all identical.

Run it on gas or propane. About 24 - 26" of travel, with choices of torsion bars, Fox or King bypass shocks or coilovers with bypasses, or Revolution shocks (internal bypass coilovers!).

All 100% chromo, and cheaper than an X-18. A friend of mine has been pounding, bashing and thrashing on a prototype version in Ocotillo Wells and Johnson Valley for the last 7 months or so, and has not been able to break anything on it. As a matter of fact, his group is calling it "the tow truck" because it always makes it back to camp, and everyone else is breaking down and getting towed back by his rig!
 

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If you want something that's Baja tough and reliable as a granite boulder, you need to call John Mosely of Mosebuilt.

He's building a 4wd KOH style Ultra4 style crawler/truck that is waaaay beyond the X18. Think Toyota V6 or V8, using the entire stock Toyota engine/tranny/transfer case and diffs, Ford axles and CVs, with boxed upper and lower A-arms front and rear. Carry 1 upper arm and 1 lower arm, and you have replacement arms for all 4 corners, they are all identical.

Run it on gas or propane. About 24 - 26" of travel, with choices of torsion bars, Fox or King bypass shocks or coilovers with bypasses, or Revolution shocks (internal bypass coilovers!).

All 100% chromo, and cheaper than an X-18. A friend of mine has been pounding, bashing and thrashing on a prototype version in Ocotillo Wells and Johnson Valley for the last 7 months or so, and has not been able to break anything on it. As a matter of fact, his group is calling it "the tow truck" because it always makes it back to camp, and everyone else is breaking down and getting towed back by his rig!
wow what are we talking $$ sounds interesting and sinister sand cars are awesome and can take a beating they are way beefier then a short sand car ect
 

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Socal said in there somewhere that it was cheaper than an X-18

"All 100% chromo, and cheaper than an X-18."

Sounds like a good deal really. All that and a bag of chips perhaps. Does it come with a cake and the one you ate too in the bed?

:p
 

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I ordered a WC last summer but my asshole dealer decided at the last minute not to carry the line. Since then I've been having a lot of second thoughts on what vehicle to get and was hoping to get some feedback from different people's perspectives.

I ride exclusively in Baja and do a lot of long distance rides. A short one day is 100 to 200 miles. In Nov. I did 2600 miles. Late this year I hope to do a 5000 mile/30 day ride. I am regularly in a region where the next human is 30 miles away, sometimes 50. Hence, quality is the top requirement. Next is power. I like lots of it.

Here's the deal. A WC will cost me $20k or more by the time I get it ready for the trail. But several companies make these mini buggies that have 180 HP and at least as much wheel travel as a WC. I don't have experience with them so I'm clueless in terms of their quality, etc. They are a little larger than a SXS, cost $35K, and don't have 4wd. But they do come out the gate with monster power!

Here is a list of builders I've been in conversation with.

Predator Motor Corporation

King Sand Cars

Sinister Sand Sports - Sand Rails and Buggy's HOME

The Predator runs a Chevy ecotec 4 cylinder that is bullet proof. Lot's of people racing them and they are cheap. The other 2 companies use a Hayabusa motorcycle engine that people swear by.

I know there is a big price difference but other than that what do ya think?????
No question, for what you are doing...get the Predator Rail. For the $35k you mention you get a SCORE certified rig and it can take way more of a beating than any SXS and certainly more than a King or Sinister car. The busa rails are fun but you will be chewing sprockets and chains all day long and burning up third gear frequently too.

So, (in MY opinion) ya...hands down Predator.
 

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I can understand the Op's concern..but any comparison of the above mentioned cars with a Wildcat, even by cost is kinda out there. The Wildcat is still just a utv for the masses. The others mentioned are more desert/dune specific and of little use anywhere else. Also, by the time an X-18 is SCORE legal, Baja ready you'll add another 15k..
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
If you want something that's Baja tough and reliable as a granite boulder, you need to call John Mosely of Mosebuilt.
The phone number from his Facebook page is disconnected and no website.

As for an X-18- your right, it is a lot more to have one Score tagged. But I don't need to race this thing in Score anyway. I've already got a race truck. What I'm looking for is an fast open-air expedition vehicle.
 

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I can understand the Op's concern..but any comparison of the above mentioned cars with a Wildcat, even by cost is kinda out there. The Wildcat is still just a utv for the masses. The others mentioned are more desert/dune specific and of little use anywhere else. Also, by the time an X-18 is SCORE legal, Baja ready you'll add another 15k..
Isnt the Predator rail at $35k ready to go from a SCORE legal standpoint? I know I looked at the non-score ones a few years back and they were around $25k. I looked at a brand new 2012 X-18s in Temecula and man, I gotta say that thing is sick...it was black with black beadlocks...really nice looking rig.

but ya, if we are talking $15-$20k price range then its tough to compare. I would stay away from the busa rails though...you dont see many postings saying Im selling my SXS to get a busa rail....its usually the other way around. At least from what I have seen.
 

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If you want something that's Baja tough and reliable as a granite boulder, you need to call John Mosely of Mosebuilt.
The phone number from his Facebook page is disconnected and no website.

As for an X-18- your right, it is a lot more to have one Score tagged. But I don't need to race this thing in Score anyway. I've already got a race truck. What I'm looking for is an fast open-air expedition vehicle.
Find a slightly used x-18 then...I see them around for the $25k range. Well....rarely I see them around for sale...but when i do they are around $25k.
 

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wow what are we talking $$ sounds interesting and sinister sand cars are awesome and can take a beating they are way beefier then a short sand car ect
I would guess anywhere from $30K to $55K, depending on how well equipped you want it, and what drivetrain you choose. The thing is like a tank, literally going over anything in it's path.
 

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i like the 4x4 that the wildcat offers and would not want to go back to a 2wd rig again but a long travel KOH buggy would be fun

That's why I suggested the Mosebuilt buggy. It's a 4wd setup, but much more heavy duty than any UTV. Because the entire drivetrain is mounted backwards, it's fulltime front wheel drive, the rear wheel drive is what engages/disengages.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
How does a guy get in touch with Mosebilt? The phone # I got online is dead? No website either. I guess I could send him a snail mail but that would be weird. Haven't done that in ages.
 

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Isnt the Predator rail at $35k ready to go from a SCORE legal standpoint? I know I looked at the non-score ones a few years back and they were around $25k. I looked at a brand new 2012 X-18s in Temecula and man, I gotta say that thing is sick...it was black with black beadlocks...really nice looking rig.but ya, if we are talking $15-$20k price range then its tough to compare. I would stay away from the busa rails though...you dont see many postings saying Im selling my SXS to get a busa rail....its usually the other way around. At least from what I have seen.
Funny you should say that. I just sold my tompro busa rail to buy a wc or XP, yet the guy that bought it sold his XP to get my rail - different strokes I guess. To me, the chain is loud and a weak link, and the tompro is only really suited for dunes.
 

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Look at the Predator closely. The entire car is built in China aside from the motor. Looks good from the outside, but China built. They are dogs in the dunes but work ok in the desert. Defiantly not sold on the snowmobile clutch assembly and noisy. I was under the impression that Aimen (owner of the company) was getting out of making the Predator (no money in them as he stated) and only making custom cars going forward. Where do you get replacement parts for a China built product? I would go WC or XP long before.
 

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X18

Here was my X18. Just sold it and bought a XP900. Miss it, but it was too hard to get it and my other Rzr to the Dunes at the same time.

1225101248a.jpg 1225101249b.jpg
 

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Look at the Predator closely. The entire car is built in China aside from the motor. Looks good from the outside, but China built. They are dogs in the dunes but work ok in the desert. Defiantly not sold on the snowmobile clutch assembly and noisy. I was under the impression that Aimen (owner of the company) was getting out of making the Predator (no money in them as he stated) and only making custom cars going forward. Where do you get replacement parts for a China built product? I would go WC or XP long before.
I've heard that...also heard that Malcolm Smith & Malcolm Smith Motorsports had signed on to promote and sell the X-18. He was going to enter one in the 1000 some years back. Unfortunately it, the X-18 didn't pass tech inspection the day before the race!! Something about inferior or too thin of materials in the chassis. :pat:
 

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How does a guy get in touch with Mosebilt? The phone # I got online is dead? No website either. I guess I could send him a snail mail but that would be weird. Haven't done that in ages.

I talked to the owner of the prototype, Jim Drewett. He is in constant contact with John Mosely. Jim's # is 619-917-9043. He told me to post it up and he can give you some info about his 4WD buggy and get you in touch with John Mosely.

Good luck! John is a great guy and I really think you'll be impressed with what he can build for you!
 
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