Wildcat Forum banner
1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
159 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Long story short I bought an Alba clutch kit back in 2018 and never installed it. I was scared of the process and the adjustable weights. I had an unrelated issue that I thought was the clutch so, time to get at this.

The Alba clutch was test and tuned in the desert and dunes, which I ride more often then slow trails and rocks.
Kit cam with everything needed except the tools. I bought those from Brute Performance.

Alba recommended the STM arms be setup with weights 4-2-2. Which is 4 on the TIP, 2 in the center, 2 on the HEAL.

From the LONG 8pg clutch thread I was really scared this setup was not going to work for me, well it does work and it's not all that bad.

Factory clutching for me was 2800rpm engagement and 8800rpm maxed out.
The Alba clutch is now 3800rpm engagement and 9000rpm maxed out.

I don't really like the 4k engagement but driving this weekend and getting used to it, there really wasn't an issue. I was out in Calico, CA desert and rock crawling (legit 4ft wall crawling). I forgot I even had diff-lock, HA HA! I was in 3wd LO and crawled everything fine. When in the rocks, I kept looking at my RPM's trying to see where the clutch could be an issue. At 8-12mph I was at 5500-6K rpm and just cruising along no issues. Out in the open desert washes I was always up at 7k-9k cruising and I really liked how fast the reaction timing from pedal down to full rpm was.

End of the weekend, I'm no longer scared of the clutch although I may try a different primary spring to lower engagement.

Parts included in the kit: You can source parts from any supplier, but this kit is complete as listed.
Venom 180-320 Primary Spring # 210492-018
Alba/Venom 200-280 Secondary Spring # 210493-011
Alba Spring bushings
STM adjustable weighted arms #4001151
STM Helix 38-45 non-ebc # 4001102

252499

252504


Special Tools needed: (typical standard/metric sockets and allen tools required)
Torx socket T60
EPI Clutch Puller # PCP-17
Clutch clamp to hold the assembly to unload/load the springs safely - I made one, super easy with 1/4-20 rod and a nuts and two plates (see pictures)

252503


Rubbermaid cooler for layout and 4" vise on a stand come in handy to work from :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,925 Posts
Not saying your wrong because I don’t know the Alba set up...but when they call for 4-2-2 or whatever, usually it’s from the heal to the toe??? That would give you the same weight overall but a WAY different starting RPM. Are you sure you have it correct? You may be right and I know I am an idiot so I may be wrong lol.

Oh and nice write up and if you like it and learn to drive it...rock it!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
2018 XX with Speed 77” kit tuned by ST. Speedwerx Extreminator motor/clutch.Simpson seats & belts
Joined
·
145 Posts
Nice report and great to hear your happy with the setup!
Did you have a difficult time removing your primary clutch? I need to remove mine and was having a challenge getting it to loosen up. A few members suggested Teflon tape on the threads of the puller tool and some WD-40,grease,or water.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
159 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Not saying your wrong because I don’t know the Alba set up...but when they call for 4-2-2 or whatever, usually it’s from the heal to the toe??? That would give you the same weight overall but a WAY different starting RPM. Are you sure you have it correct? You may be right and I know I am an idiot so I may be wrong lol.

Oh and nice write up and if you like it and learn to drive it...rock it!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I called prior to install to confirm, so unless I completely heard wrong then that's what they recommended.

Nice report and great to hear your happy with the setup!
Did you have a difficult time removing your primary clutch? I need to remove mine and was having a challenge getting it to loosen up. A few members suggested Teflon tape on the threads of the puller tool and some WD-40,grease,or water.
It was tight and we backed the puller out to be careful, put some anti-seize on the threads and a small gob of grease on the tip, then BAM it just fell off next run in.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
159 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The arm weights are still an "unknown" to me. I just can't figure out in my head what they do or how they work. I've read and watched so many threads/videos it just doesn't click for me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,925 Posts
The arm weights are still an "unknown" to me. I just can't figure out in my head what they do or how they work. I've read and watched so many threads/videos it just doesn't click for me.
Put simply...if you move the weight/mass away from the pivot point or in this case the pin, then it requires more RPM to swing the arm and move the sheeve/belt to a higher ratio.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
159 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I appreciate the simple help/comment but that still doesn't click for me.
I get that the weights make the arm react slower/faster based on rpm to overcome the weight, but what does that equate to?

More weight on the tip takes more rpm and more weight on the heal less rpm to engage the belt but how much weight per rpm is what eludes me, and maybe that's just learning by opening changing weights aka tuning. That's the part that scares me I do not want to keep playing with this thing over and over again, clearly I will have to. None of the instructions or videos tells you any of that weight to rpm info.

Anyway... lets move on, see ya'll on the trails!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,662 Posts
What DuneTrack-n wrote seems contradictory - how can adding weight at the tip do one thing and adding weight near the fulcrum do the reverse? The tip weight position is actually outside the fulcrum, so weight in that position actually works to keep the clutch open, until the clutch begins to close thanks to the weights in the inner locations. When the tip weight crosses the fulcrum line, it starts closing the clutch, so changing the balance between the inner locations and the tip location will change not only the engagement, but the slope of the shift.

If anyone with adjustable clutch arms wants to do a fun little experiment, take all of the weights out of the inner positions and fully weight the tip location. Since the secondary clutch spins freely on an XX in Park, put it in Park, start the engine and increase RPM. If the tip position is outside of the fulcrum, the clutch may not ever close. If it does close, it will be due to the clutch arm itself having enough weight to overcome the tip weights, but it will happen at a really high RPM.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,925 Posts
Now throw in the fact that the arm weight has to overcome the spring pressure...and there is a million different combos of starting and finishing spring rate that play a big role on primary cam arm shift characteristics and the total weight of the arms.

And yes the only real way to learn is play and test with different combos for your riding style/terrain.....it’s a black art for sure and that is why you bought a kit that has been tested and proven by Alba.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Now throw in the fact that the arm weight has to overcome the spring pressure...and there is a million different combos of starting and finishing spring rate that play a big role on primary cam arm shift characteristics and the total weight of the arms.

And yes the only real way to learn is play and test with different combos for your riding style/terrain.....it’s a black art for sure and that is why you bought a kit that has been tested and proven by Alba.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, exactly. If you don't have the time to experiment with different weights and springs and helix, then leave it stock. Black art? yes to most people
 

·
Registered
2018 XX with Speed 77” kit tuned by ST. Speedwerx Extreminator motor/clutch.Simpson seats & belts
Joined
·
145 Posts
Man I tried the anti seize on the threads with the grease on the end and feel like it still doesn’t want to pop off.
Am I missing something on removing the primary? I’ve removed the torx retaining bolt and threaded the removal tool but feel like I’m running the removal tool to far. I definitely do not want the ruin the shaft.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,662 Posts
See the other thread for details. The puller threads in a long way before making contact with the PTO.
 

·
Registered
2018 72" Wildcat XX
Joined
·
51 Posts
Man I tried the anti seize on the threads with the grease on the end and feel like it still doesn’t want to pop off.
Am I missing something on removing the primary? I’ve removed the torx retaining bolt and threaded the removal tool but feel like I’m running the removal tool to far. I definitely do not want the ruin the shaft.
You need a high torque impact and cannot be afraid to send it. I definitely have seen the clutch pullers bend, and I am not sure which one you have. But I am still using the original blue clutch puller that I purchased from arctic cat themselves. I've had my clutch off probably upwards of 30 times and my poor little whore of a clutch puller has been shared between all my buddies. It has probably been used upwards of 45-50 times and still doing the job.

However, if your clutch has never been off, the first time pulling the primary is definitely the most difficult. For whatever reason.
 

·
Registered
2018 XX with Speed 77” kit tuned by ST. Speedwerx Extreminator motor/clutch.Simpson seats & belts
Joined
·
145 Posts
You need a high torque impact and cannot be afraid to send it. I definitely have seen the clutch pullers bend, and I am not sure which one you have. But I am still using the original blue clutch puller that I purchased from arctic cat themselves. I've had my clutch off probably upwards of 30 times and my poor little whore of a clutch puller has been shared between all my buddies. It has probably been used upwards of 45-50 times and still doing the job.

However, if your clutch has never been off, the first time pulling the primary is definitely the most difficult. For whatever reason.
Thanks for the great info! I’m not sure if the original owner had pulled the primary clutch or not. I assume he must have since the car has the Speedwerx Extreminator kit. I can try reaching out to him and ask if he removed it. I think I’m going to order the Speedwerx PTO shaft for it since I’m going to have the primary already off.

Im in Prague for another few weeks and hope to be able to knock out getting the Wildcat back together when I get home.
On a side note does anyone in the So.Cal area have a trusted SxS mechanic that they would recommend? I may run out time as I’ve got a remodel going on at my house as well that I may need to focus on when I get home and if anyone has a solid mechanic I may just hand it over. Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Bang on the end of the puller with a hammer. If that doesn't work, use a bigger hammer. Seriously. I have seen sleds rust at the taper. I would also be careful not to leave grease on the PTO. Might slip.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,662 Posts
I shudder every time I see someone say "hit it with a hammer". Crankshaft thrust bearings are typically NOT sized for that sort of abuse. I read that tip and hit the clutch on my X when I had trouble getting it off. Some time later, the thrust bearing support cast into the case failed and the crankshaft walked the flywheel right into the stator.

The "turn your puller into a hydraulic ram" trick has worked for me every time I've needed it. Wrap the puller threads with pipe sealing tape, fill the center of the clutch with fluid of some sort, insert the puller and run it in as quickly as possible. You can use water if you can tip the machine on its side so it won't spill out. I typically use PB Blaster Penetrating Grease in an aerosol can, with the applicator straw buried deep into the clutch. Surprisingly, the grease doesn't get blown all over the place when the clutch pops. Note that I've never tried this trick when I didn't have an impact wrench available. The pipe tape doesn't seal perfectly, and I suspect you would not be able to run the puller in fast enough by hand to develop any real pressure.
 

·
Registered
2018 XX with Speed 77” kit tuned by ST. Speedwerx Extreminator motor/clutch.Simpson seats & belts
Joined
·
145 Posts
Helpful write up mbrandt1402! Are you using a pneumatic impact or a cordless 1/2” drive impact?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,662 Posts
I have a Harbor Freight 110v ac impact that I take with us on trips. At home, I use an Aircat pneumatic. I think removing a clutch frequently requires more torque than a cordless can produce, but I haven't tried the hydraulic trick with my Ryobi cordless.

To be clear, the HF impact is nowhere near the level of the Aircat. I bought it since I always have AC power via the motorhome. I don't think the motorhome air system has enough volume to run the Aircat at full torque.
 

·
Registered
2018 XX with Speed 77” kit tuned by ST. Speedwerx Extreminator motor/clutch.Simpson seats & belts
Joined
·
145 Posts
Thanks again,my only reservation about using a impact gun is I’ve already bent one puller tool and I’m concerned that I’m using the impact could potentially damage the threads on the puller or the clutch.
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Top