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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Put a 5 point harness in these things.

I had the unfortunate pleasure of having to render 1st aid and call for a medivac chopper to remove two people severely injuried in a Razar that had rolled over a couple of times. Both driver and passenger survived but last word is the youngman along for the ride may never walk again. During the roll he had slipped out from the "SHOULDER" belt. Shoulder belts are for fully enclosed cars not open cockpit buggies. Driver did not escape severe injuries either. Also put in a spot to lower the 5 point harnesses to accomadate younger riders.

I heard you guys had the cage certified do not screw it up with simple shoulder belts. If you need an idea on how to accomadate smaller riders I have a good one.

Any future owners wanting my idea for lowering the belts for youngsters let me know. Also if AC does not put these 5 points in that certainly is going to be my 1st mod along with hand restraints.
 

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I do agree that these rigs need 5 point harness...... However it is the drivers responsibilty to not drive beyond their skill level not the MFG's. The Idiots that sued Yamaha saying that Rhino was unsafe was total Bullshi* because they drive like morons. I owned a Rhino and never once did it roll it, If you take a truck and floor it then crank the wheel its going to flip. I saw a car that flipped and the passenger slip out too and flew out the back window the driver was driving beyond his means and wrecked. Bottom line people when you drive like a Idiot hurt yourself and others take responsabilty for your actions not the MFG of a machine. :mad:
 

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Man i couldnt agree more !! first and foremost it is the drivers responsibilty to know his limits. it would be super nice to have better belts in the wildcat. however the cost of the belt and other small but important safety things would make the stock unit more money. and with the economy the way it is 3 to 4 hundred more dollars could be a deal breaker for some people. i think its a great idea that they atleast offer it in the accessory catolog. this would give people who know there going to push the limits of the sxs. to say hey i might wanna get better belts just in case. but if a cat can figure a way to cut a deal with a belt company that wouldnt make it more money. that would be the smartest thing to do. we all should learn from how yamaha got screwed because dumb people dont make smart decisions!!!!


I do agree that these rigs need 5 point harness...... However it is the drivers responsibilty to not drive beyond their skill level not the MFG's. The Idiots that sued Yamaha saying that Rhino was unsafe was total Bullshi* because they drive like morons. I owned a Rhino and never once did it roll it, If you take a truck and floor it then crank the wheel its going to flip. I saw a car that flipped and the passenger slip out too and flew out the back window the driver was driving beyond his means and wrecked. Bottom line people when you drive like a Idiot hurt yourself and others take responsabilty for your actions not the MFG of a machine. :mad:
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
A 5 point harness is not that much more expensive then the 3 point retractable. Well at retail prices anyway.

Look Here for the 3 point ~$315 for the pair

Morris Classic Concepts MCSB-5-BL - Morris Classic Concepts 3-Point Retractable Seat Belts - Overview - SummitRacing.com

And here for a Simpson 5 point at ~$130 each

Simpson Racing 29061BK - Simpson Latch & Link Driver Restraint Systems - Overview - SummitRacing.com


The money saved by not having to defend lawsuits would easily cover the costs, whether the manufacture is found liable or not. If it can be done safer in the first place why not make it that way and in this case I am not seeing a large difference costs.

Donkey413 I agree with you about folks taking responsibilty for their own actions but in todays world of SUE ME that is just not the reality of things. The case I stated above the driver was responsible, but the safety restrainants should have been made to accomodate a rollover and in the above case a multiple rollover. The restraints did not keep the party properly inside the protective roll cage.

One thing to consider is that a retractable belt system may fail in short order from dirt/mud intrusion and you may not know it failed till you need it(as in fail to restarin you). 5 point harnesses have been used in everything from dirt circle tracks to the Baja. The only failure you can experience form them is if they do not latch. Yes in sanctioned race events they change them every couple of years but I have one over 10 years old that is still functional and gets abused every weekend retaining cargo on the back of my Cat H2.

There is not one us that at one time that has not got away with a "LUCKY ONE" in one of our high speed sports that we participate in. My most recent event for me was a high speed sled incident but thank god my daughter talked me into a TEK vest with shoulder and arm protection. Pretty much came out unhurt, just sore. We are going to push the limits more often then we care to admit and many times the inexperienced ones are the ones who are going to try and duplicate what they seen those with experience do, hopefully just to a painless end and not paraylsis or death.
 

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My old Honda Odyssey had hand restraints and a 4 point harness. I think the hand restraints were aftermarket, but the belts were stock. I'm really glad I had both safety devices because those Odyssey's flipped all the time! I would definitely add these to any new machine.
 

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I have put 4 point harnesses in both of my previous Prowlers. That being said, this isn't a race car. It isn't designed for that. If you want to drive it that way, install the restraints yourself. Can you imagine the questions from the average joe who sees five point harnesses and arm restraints in this thing? They would be so intimidated they wouldn't know what to think. The best thing is for AC to tell you everything you shouldn't do in the Wildcat, just like they do in the Prowler. For example you shouldn't drive on uneven or loose ground. Never on improved roads, etc. Most people use these things responsibly. You are always going to have idiots who drive carelessly or a too drunk to be responsible. They probably wouldn't wear the the harnesses anyways....................
 

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4 point in my Prowler.....wear it when I know it should be worn...seat belt all other times. I feel 4 point should be installed stock then AC should tell the buyer how to use them......sorry Dentless but I do not agree with you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I have put 4 point harnesses in both of my previous Prowlers. That being said, this isn't a race car. It isn't designed for that.....
You are right not a race ready machine but does it need to be a racer to have a good and proper restraint system installed. The other thing if you do not like the extra costs then go buy something else. AC has for the most part always been the leader and this is another case I think that it would sell more machines.

Most people who bought the 1st production run of the Razer never knew the roll cage was not certified for a roll over, but then again why would they have to think twice about a rollover having a roll cage. Accidents happen more often then most will admit. Not all of us ride on a trail system or in a riding park of some sort. Here in Ak we have lots of unmaintained trails and riding areas that change every time the wind blows with some of them skirting along off camber dropoffs of a couple hundered feet, so it's not all about speed as it is "SAFETY".
 

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It dont matter what they put in for seatbelt some idiot wont use them, drive like a jackA** wreck and try and sue the MFG !! the world we live in has so many spineless low life jerks that think the MFG owes them something when they do something stupid. thats why the little packets at the bottom of eletronic box say "do not eat" because some dumbA** did got sick and sued......if people are so stupid that they need to be told something so ovious then they deserve what happens to them. it makes so mad that people cashed in on their stupidity when they sued Yamaha when the Rhino was safe now look no new Yamaha sxs.... Just think all them idiots may have ruined the whole sxs sport because of their greed..... Rember Yamaha started the whole sxs craze now they are so behind because of them useless sue happy jerks. Like i said in my first post Take responsiablity for your own actions people! Nothing built is idiot proof and there are alot of idiots in this world.

Wildcatmanic i too am from Alaska born and raised and yes the trails can be crazy but again it still is about driver responsablity when you navigate trails like that its still is not the MFG that needs to be responsable for "what if" or "accidents happen" we choose where to ride and how to ride........
 

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4 point in my Prowler.....wear it when I know it should be worn...seat belt all other times. I feel 4 point should be installed stock then AC should tell the buyer how to use them......sorry Dentless but I do not agree with you.
I agree. The unspoken reality here is that these machines will flip, even the most experienced and skilled riders will have their moments. Lap/shoulder belts are designed for impact hits and will keep you from ejecting from the cab to a point. Harnesses are designed for roll over. To me it seems logical to equip these buggies with harness restraints. It looks like a bar would have to be added to the ROPS for installation of the harnesses.
 

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You don't necessarily need another bar to attach the harnesses - if there is sufficient steel behind the seats you can get the bolt on version.

AC had already included some very nice features including EPS and doors - if you feel you need more protection than that perhaps you should evaluate your driving. I have never rolled my RZR S, but rolled my 08 RZR x2 - both times my fault. It would be pretty hard to roll this although its probably easier our west in the dunes with witch eyes and such.


It would be nice and I would be willing to pay a few extra bucks if they came from the factory that way to save me the trouble of installing them.

If it means delaying the release of these bad boys to get harnesses then forget it until maybe a mid-year upgrade option.
 

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It would be nice and I would be willing to pay a few extra bucks if they came from the factory that way to save me the trouble of installing them.
That would be an excellent option to have. I don't plan on flipping, but for those times that I do run out of talent I want that added assurance when things go from bad to worse.
 

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Harnesses would be a nice dealer installed or factory option. I would pay extra.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
It dont matter what they put in for seatbelt some idiot wont use them, drive like a jackA** wreck and try and sue the MFG !! the world we live in has so many spineless low life jerks that think the MFG owes them something when they do something stupid. thats why the little packets at the bottom of eletronic box say "do not eat" because some dumbA** did got sick and sued......if people are so stupid that they need to be told something so ovious then they deserve what happens to them. it makes so mad that people cashed in on their stupidity when they sued Yamaha when the Rhino was safe now look no new Yamaha sxs.... Just think all them idiots may have ruined the whole sxs sport because of their greed..... Rember Yamaha started the whole sxs craze now they are so behind because of them useless sue happy jerks. Like i said in my first post Take responsiablity for your own actions people! Nothing built is idiot proof and there are alot of idiots in this world.

Wildcatmanic i too am from Alaska born and raised and yes the trails can be crazy but again it still is about driver responsablity when you navigate trails like that its still is not the MFG that needs to be responsable for "what if" or "accidents happen" we choose where to ride and how to ride........
Going140mph understand I am in total agreement with what you say the problem is unfortunately that is not the reality of todays world. People are all looking for that get rich quick thing and then I can do nothing the rest of my life chuckwagon. You did know that there were at least 3 bad Razer crashes this summer? The one I was involved with was all driver error that caused the rollover. The problem was that both driver and passenger slid out of the restraints that were being properly used.

You want to see the difference between a 3 point and a 5 point in a roll over then just go to youtube and type in Razer crashes.

The point I am trying to make....is if you are going to put a full up roll cage on the machine then put in a proper restarint system to compliment the roll cage system. If not then do not use a roll cage system at all. The way some have spoken here that they never get into a bad situtation then the roll cage is not needed either.

Look at the Honda Odessey progression, from an open cockpit with just a lap belt and roll bar, to a full roll cage and 4 point harness, to the Pilot with a formed seat, hand restraints and a 4 point(5 point?). Honda learn something along the way anybody want to guess why the upgrades were done. Why did Honda drop the line back then? These things sold like hotcakes back then and even now IF you find one for sale it won't be there long, especially the Pilots.
My belief is the engineer crew on the Wildcat are most likely too young to remember the Odessey or never seen one. Supposedly they are suppose to be taking the best of the rest.:confused: I am not real sure that is the case.
 

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IS there a big difference between a 4 pnt with sternum strap and 5 pnt harness in a roll over? Reason I ask is I have the DFR 4 point in my RZR S but if I roll it I must have done something very stupid like go off the side of a mountain.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
IS there a big difference between a 4 pnt with sternum strap and 5 pnt harness in a roll over? Reason I ask is I have the DFR 4 point in my RZR S but if I roll it I must have done something very stupid like go off the side of a mountain.
A 5 point has a submarine strap, it's the strap that runs to the floor. Keeps you in the seat. So 5 point might be overkill a 4 point would be ok for adults, smaller guys could use the sub strap to keep from slipping out the bottom.
 
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