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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys, I apologize for not getting this info out to you sooner. Between our usual snowmobile testing this time of year and the WC project it's been a busy couple of months.

Here is the latest update from EPI:

2 weeks ago we took a new production unit to Oklahoma and spent a few days at Little Sahara.

We first drove it in stock form for about 15 miles to break it in a bit and get a good feel for it before making changes. Next we bolted on sand tires. Within 11 miles the stock belt blew. No clutching changes at all, just tires. We then installed a new belt and went out again - this second belt blew in 6 miles. Wow. We didn't know what to think. If you haven't been to Little Sahara, it is a mini-version of Glamis. The dunes aren't nearly as big. So we really weren't working it very hard and yet we exploded 2 belts within 17 miles just by bolting on paddles. We figured something had to have happened under that cover that we didn't notice the first time we replaced the belt, so we spent a good hour cleaning, checking, and going over everything. All looked good. We only had one belt left so we started making changes to the clutching and ended up putting about 100 more miles on it with no more belt issues. I have a hard time believing that just adding paddles is enough to blow a belt....... but that was our experience.

After 15 different combinations of clutch calibrations we still didn't have a set up that we would feel good about putting our name on and selling as a kit. We tried every combination of helix, weights and spring that "made sense" and then tried a few that were "way out there" just to see what would happen. No luck. Our very best combination improves the throttle response and has it pulling strong in the dunes, but it's no good on a hard launch where you hook up strong. any small improvment in one area resulted in losses elsewhere.

Now I'm not trying to defend our company or make excuses. we've been a clutching company for almost 25 years and usually have little trouble finding gains. some machines respond better than others, some we have to look harder. But this WC has us frustrated. We've invested alot of time and money in it so far. In our opinion, it's a heavy unit that needs a more robust power curve. The motor makes horsepower but the torque seems to fall off pretty fast and can't pull very aggressive clutching. If we get too aggressive with the shift-out, the rpms fall off fast. We're clutch guys. We've never claimed to be motor guys, but being in the business and working with these things you can't help but pick some of it up. We're waiting for the motor guys to figure out how to make this motor pull hard all the way through. Then hopefully we can work with them to match the clutching to what they come up with.

As far as the wet clutch, Yamaha, Suzuki and Cat have used this system for a long time. It's reliable and smooth, but not really designed to be aggressive and performance oriented. In our testing of the 5 different WC's we've had the opportunity to work on, the wet clutch appears to be working it's butt off trying to hang on. put a bunch of power on one end of it, and 1400+ pounds on the other side of it and it's going to slip. Our usual approach when clutching machines with wet clutches is to raise the engagement by installing heavier wet clutch springs - thus giving the machine a harder launch and bringing the motor in higher in its power band. It works great on utility quads. But the WC is too heavy. When we tried that, it resulted in even more wet clutch slip.

We're here to help. We have roller weights from 12 to 32 grams, roller housings and springs. We haven't used helix changes on the Cats in the past because the wet clutch design is typically a much less aggressive shifting system and helix changes didn't result in much gain, But we can cut them if you want to order an angle and do your own tuning.

From my experiences with the WC so far, I'd certainly consider one if I were buying a SxS. I love the look, feel, handling & comfort of it. I'm not a "drive with my hair on fire" kind of guy so I could be really happy with the performance of it - I think it's fun and challenging to put my driving skills to the test keeping up with the turbo'd RZR's. Now, some of our R&D guys that I have the pleasure to work with like more power and performance than they can handle so I certainly respect all of you who are looking for that!

I'm sure things will continue to develop quickly on this machine, and I'll do my best to stay in touch as we progress with it.

Thanks
 

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Is it your opinion its heavy or is it fact. Thats a wierd statement. Did yall weight it and other sxs's?
 

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We are all hoping for a answer. Sounds like you are doing your home work. Please keep us informed. Sound like the wet clutch has to go.
 

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Adam said this was the way it was gonna be months ago.
 
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depressing, but thanks for the report...the truth hurts.

Leaves the WCD as the only current option to improve power...
 

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I can't believe that a 1000cc V Twin doesn't make loads of torque. Stock it should be better at making torque than HP.
 

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I don't believe he meant it was to heavy for a SxS, its been weighed. Moreso to heavy for the clutching in its current incarnation.

Ecu remap and exhaust would probably make it slip like a banana. Its gonna take a little time to get it all worked out.
 

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Let me :deadhorse:, this primary sucks. It needs a new primary with a spring in it. The wet clutch might also slip, but I wouldn't take it out (if I had it to do over) until I had first had a chance to try a good primary.

We did run about 100 miles this weekend at little Sahara. I do have the wrong spring in my 2ndary at the moment and after a good 30 minute romp against a 40 mph + head wind at night, my belt was slipping so badly I was 35 mph flat on the floor. I opted to limp it home and park it. The next day my wife drove it a bit, and the belt seemed fine again. Heat maybe??? I don't really know at this point.

This clutch design is piss poor. It relies solely on the secondary to back shift, and if you want more backshift, you need a stiffer spring in the secondary. Do that, and BOOM there goes your belt. Arguably, the belt might go anyway with the stock spring in it due to pressure from lugging the motor and it trying to back shift primary with belt tension alone.

Best I can see the primary uses a cam over effect over the rollers to shift. So, and correct me if I am wrong, but that means your primary has about 2 gears. Low, then at a certain RPM, high when it cams over the rollers. It's not very broad range to begin with.

Glad you guys are trying some stuff, I know it takes time and money to do this stuff. If you ever come back out to Little Sahara, shoot me a PM and we can mess around with mine with the CVtech and compare setups. I can't go back for a couple of weeks as I need time to get the machining done to mate my CVtech to the crankshaft.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
My comment of it being heavy is not meant to compare it to other sxs's, although i do believe it's about 150-200 heavier than the XP?? My comment is only to point out that it is in fact a lot of weight to be putting a wet clutch system on - In my opinion. I realize the Rhinos and Prowlers all use a wet clutch, but they aren't in the same arena of performance as this unit.

We usually find untapped power in different areas of the clutching phase by playing with combinations. The only way we could "improve" performance was by letting the motor rev quicker and then not loading it very much. Without loading it we can't get it to pull hard. It made it feel more crisp and responsive, but it still falls flat on top. That's why i think the "motor guys' need to do their thing!

I was driving a 2011 XP today (in the snow) while doing some belt tests. It's a machien that EPI bought for R&D then sold to a local guy for his wife. he let us use it for a day, and i made the mistake of telling him how much more comfortable the WC was.... now he wanst us to buy a WC and sell it to him when we're done with it!
 

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i just put 5 miles on my brand new cat tonight and i am smiling ear to ear, going to the dune on the 21-24, i may not be smiling then. but sofar i am like it, now someone get to work on that wcd fix!!!!!
 

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Just got back from waynoka and am still smiling from ear to ear might all i want is some better door latches and harnesses maybe some paddles for the next trip
 

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Here we go beating the horse again, but stock XP, with paddles (much lighter than stock wheels and tires), gas, doors, light bar, seat belts, bumper and rear cage = just barely under 1400 lbs, verified on a crane scale at my friend's shop. Stock Wildcat 1326 curb weight. There is almost no weight difference other than in manufacturer posted specs. Polaris' number is flat wrong for the XP. Take off the doors, cage and light bar, you are looking at roughly 1300 lbs, right with the cat.
 

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i just put 5 miles on my brand new cat tonight and i am smiling ear to ear, going to the dune on the 21-24, i may not be smiling then. but sofar i am like it, now someone get to work on that wcd fix!!!!!
Pawn, obviously you are talking March, come see us, we will be at Deuces Wild that weekend, east side, big carport, 39 Raptor with 2 Wildcats out front, can't miss it.
 

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Well thanks for at least paying for your own test dummys (no offense Jack) But the power is there its not far off a XP. Your just not going to fix it with springs and weights in the clutch. You need to do more than that to wake up a AC.
 

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In the sand, Light Paddles, learn how the cat works,Just learn to drive the cat and then and only then come back to the formand complain.
NOT GONNA HAPPEN. You will be a happy cat owner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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In the sand, Light Paddles, learn how the cat works,Just learn to drive the cat and then and only then come back to the formand complain.NOT GONNA HAPPEN. You will be a happy cat owner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am happy overall, my paddles aren't "heavy" comparatively speaking and I can certainly drive, but it's a little sluggish accelerating and it's top speed lacks about 6 mph on an xp in the sand.
 

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EPIJEFF what kind of paddles and how many, what size of tires and wheels aparently that has a lot to do with the WC a few reports of very happy owners with 12'S and eight skat paddles, maybe the ones you were using were too much for the clutch???
 
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