Wildcat Forum banner
1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
The idea that the base has the original Team clutching and the other two trims get the new “better” Adapt clutch is just dumb and another mistake by Textron/Arctic Cat.

All trims are the same car, same HP, same trans, suspension etc.. so why would you put a inferior clutch on your base model when it’s the same performing vehicle as your other trims?

I could see it if the other trims had more HP, different power or drivetrain to justify a better clutch. When a manufacturer upgrades a platform, you do it across the board as you want your product to be the best it can and not have a trim be less reliable. And being that the XX is the only performance UTV offered by Arctic Cat, why would they want two clutches on the same machine?

Unfortunately this is just another example of Textron/Arctic Cat not getting it. It’s why they trail so far behind the other brands in sales. And it does not have to be that way. Honestly I keep expecting them to drop the XX all together as they don’t seem to understand the demographic and region that car is designed for.

BTW I like the new wheels and I’m sure not renewing the KMC wheel contract saves money.
 

·
Registered
2021 Wildcat XX
Joined
·
50 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
The idea that the base has the original Team clutching and the other two trims get the new “better” Adapt clutch is just dumb and another mistake by Textron/Arctic Cat.

All trims are the same car, same HP, same trans, suspension etc.. so why would you put a inferior clutch on your base model when it’s the same performing vehicle as your other trims?

I could see it if the other trims had more HP, different power or drivetrain to justify a better clutch. When a manufacturer upgrades a platform, you do it across the board as you want your product to be the best it can and not have a trim be less reliable. And being that the XX is the only performance UTV offered by Arctic Cat, why would they want two clutches on the same machine?

Unfortunately this is just another example of Textron/Arctic Cat not getting it. It’s why they trail so far behind the other brands in sales. And it does not have to be that way. Honestly I keep expecting them to drop the XX all together as they don’t seem to understand the demographic and region that car is designed for.

BTW I like the new wheels and I’m sure not renewing the KMC wheel contract saves money.
It has yet to be seen if it is the better clutch. And adding new parts and improvents across the board is pointless, unless you want to price yourself out of the market. By that logic there should be no standard XP1000 models because the turbo power plant is the "better" option, and why would Can-am even produce a 64 inch 120hp model anymore when the 72 inch 190hp model is "better". As to being behind in sales I think that was done by design, as Enzo Ferrari said if they had 500 orders they will make 499. To keep the value and demand up. The other brands flood the market witch in turn only diminishes value. Why pay 20k here when I can get the same there for 18k? Next thing you know it's a cutthroat bidding war just to get a machine out the door.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Tim, I’m guessing your in the industry from reading your other posts? Dealership or Service? I also see your in Vegas, which is the right region for the XX.

There is no way, Textron is by design trying to sell less models. The highest sales years for the XX was when Robby Gordon was involved and he pushed the sales market for Textron/Arctic Cat. I think the best year was 4500 units of the XX and that was the highest selling model of Arctic Cat UTV’s that year. Arctic Cat is not Ferrari and trying to sell only a limited quantity. The Speed UTV is the Ferrari of UTV’s and you don’t survive selling a limited quantity by design, thus why Speed UTV is not limiting sales. Why did Textron feel the need to private label their vehicles for Bass Pro if they were trying to keep it as a low volume market? They did it to push production numbers up and keep business going.

If Textron would pull their heads out and actually try to understand the market, then maybe they would get it! But I doubt it? Why do we not see good dealers, manufacture support or marketing on the West Coast? Why did Textron pull the plug on the 4 more models of XX that they were under contract to produce? Do you agree with Textron that there is no market for a 4 seat sport machine? That was Textron’s claim! Yet the other manufactures sell tons of 4 seat sport machines.

And regarding the clutch. With such a limited quantity being built, again why would Textron want to have two clutch assemblies for the same car? Especially since the XX is your flagship and only performance car. You mentioned Can Am. Yes they have 64 inch 120 hp as there is a market for it, just as there is for the 72 inch 200 hp with smart shocks. But guess what? They improved their clutch this year and all models got it! They went to a standard size and new brand of tire, all models got it.

Being that the XX was developed and designed as a West Coast desert car, why is it that Textron thinks the top trim needs a winch? The XX is not designed as a mountain trail, or rock crawler type of car. Sure they could make a Rock Crawl edition. But we know this is not a low end torque car for that type of riding. Your better off buying the Kawi KRC which is in this same class of UTV and way better suited for that type of usage. This is just another example of Textron not understanding the market or demographics this car is for.

Textron will never develop a Turbo for this car as they are dependent on Yamaha for it’s engines, and Yamaha has shown no desire to move into the turbo market. For Textron & the XX to stay relevant they need to come up with better vehicles & options. The XX is a great machine. I’d love to see them ditch the Yamaha and put a Textron/Weber engine in it. I’ve heard so many great things about that engine and it’s potential.

Id like to see them keep a base model, but also stick to the cars demographics and make a top trim with a smart Shock, or something to compete with the other newer brand trims that are coming out. Want a winch and rock sliders? They should build a East Coast RC edition. Or make a true dual sport machine like the KRX.

I’m not knocking the XX as it’s a great platform, I just don’t see the manufacture understanding the market, and wonder if they even care?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
I am more interested in how many broke down between the truck after unloading and the dealership, did Textron invest in R&D, or are they leaving that to the customer again like they did with the X. Is it bullet proof reliable, thats what is important to me
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
I am more interested in how many broke down between the truck after unloading and the dealership, did Textron invest in R&D, or are they leaving that to the customer again like they did with the X. Is it bullet proof reliable, thats what is important to me
Yes the X was not a reliable machine. While I’m not a fan of Textron’s business model, the X was way before they purchased the company. So you can’t blame that on them.

The XX is a very good car. It was very well R&D by Robby Gordon & his Co. I don’t know of any NTSB recalls for the XX? Overall it’s had very few design issues or reliability issues. And actually I think most issues its has had Robby Gordon told them would happen, and they chose to not listen. Front sway bar clunk he told them would happen. Steering rack bushing and not being double sheer, he told them. And then the rear Axle design. He originally designed the XX using the Speed axles, but Arctic Cat engineers came up with the splined axle and it was cheaper to manufacture, so they went with it. Also some of the axle issues was assembly issues at the factory with being installed & alined properly.

But all these have been either fixed or an aftermarket fix is available. Biggest downfall for me is that I’m not a fan of the Yamaha triple engine they chose for this car. It’s mostly reliable, but it’s just to high of a RPM for my liking.

Next post will be a little back story I know about the XX and it’s creation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
This is the creation of the XX as I know it. Robby Gordon originally worked with Polaris on the RZR and even had the original 4 seater named after him. After a few years they parted ways, and from what it sounds like it was not amicable. Plus there was some legal issues where Robby had to sue Polaris. Part of many contracts have no compete clauses or clauses that do not allow you to re-enter the same industry for a specific time period. During this time Robby partnered with Todd Romano in some other ventures. Robby knew he was not done in the SXS industry, and during his non compete time he started developing a UTV on his own out of his own shop. Once his contract expired, he & Todd were free to shopped around with manufactures to partner with to build a UTV to compete with the RZR. This is also why Robby already had so many design & utility patents in his name, and why he is able to use them on his Speed UTV.

My understanding is they talked with several manufactures and Arctic Cat was in the need of a revamp and needed a new flagship model to bring them back into the market. They liked what Robby had designed and signed up with Todd & Robby to build a new sport SXS. From what I know, the contract was for several models & trims. 2 seat, 4 seat, Turbo, long travel edition and a Rock/mud versions.

My understanding was Robby asked Arctic Cat to design the body and front grill/headlight first as that’s the company’s signature, and Robby would adapt it to his chassis and suspension design.

The biggest unknown was the engine/driveline package as Arctic Cat did not have anything in place. I’ve been told their were 3 engines looked at and mounted in the chassis. This actually caused allot of delays until Arctic Cat finalized their engine deal with Yamaha, which made sense being they have a long history in the sled business. But one of the engines Robby said was looked at was the Ford Ecoboost 1.0, 3 cylinder engine. Pretty cool!

Not sure how they ended up at Team Industries for the driveline? But that was probably a good choice for them as Arctic Cats previous drivetrain was not good, and Team had been doing Polaris’s for many years.

Even though this partnership was supposed to show more free range for Robby, the accounting dept. did not see it that way. Like how Polaris is managed, accounting has the final say. This caused some design changes as somethings were seen as a manufacturing challenge or not cost effective. In the end Robby and Arctic Cats own engineers lost to budgets & accounting.

The Wildcat XX was suppose to be released earlier, but Arctic Cat was looking for a buyer as they were facing more financial trouble and delayed the release. They did released a Robby Gordon edition Wildcat X with his rear suspension. This vehicle was used and marketed at Robby’s SST races. But the XX was not a very good kept secret as Robby had been driving a tubed chassis XX around Glamis for about a year. Robby also built two race versions of the XX called Speed Cats, that they debuted at the Baja 1000 in the unlimited class.

Eventually Arctic Cat sold to Textron, who decided the Arctic Cat name was no good and changed it to Textron Off Road. This is what the XX was released as. The Textron Wildcat XX. We all know the brand name change was not a success and was eventually changed back to Arctic Cat. I remember talking to Robby and he was truly excited about Textron buying Arctic Cat, as he knew their history and deep engineering backgroundin aerospace. He thought this would only richen and advance the industry.

Then Textron did not uphold the contract Robby & Todd had with the company and lots of things changed. Textron did not feel several models were needed and contract terms were not upheld too. Unfortunately legal had to get involved and Textron agreed to Todd & Robby’s terms and they were released to do as they pleased. Then Speed UTV was born. Thank you Textron!!!

Here is a picture of the UTV Robby had designed in 2014-15 before signing with Arctic Cat. Max would have been around 6 years old in this picture? Notice no front dif or axles, as he would not have known what would be used, as that would have been manufacture supplied. But for the most part the designed is the same and this became the WildcatXX. Can you imagine if this car was released in 2015! It would have killed the market.
Tire Wheel Land vehicle Car Vehicle


Here is a picture of the test mule running around Glamis. The Arctic Cat deal was already done by this point. I’m pretty sure the Yamaha engine was confirmed by this time too, as I believe that’s what was in it. But this was still a year or more before Textron announced or released the WildCatXX.

Wheel Tire Car Vehicle Hood


And for those who never thought a 4 seater was in the works. It was! I was told it had already been tested in Glamis, Barstow and had been running around the Arctic Cat test track in MN. This picture was taken some time in Jan-Feb of 2019 at the MN test track in the snow. Then Textron decided there was no market for a 4 seat sport machine and killed it’s release. I had been waiting 2 years for this to get released then was so bummed when I got the call it was not happening.

Land vehicle Vehicle Car Sky Automotive tire
 

·
Registered
2021 Wildcat XX
Joined
·
50 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
This is the creation of the XX as I know it. Robby Gordon originally worked with Polaris on the RZR and even had the original 4 seater named after him. After a few years they parted ways, and from what it sounds like it was not amicable. Plus there was some legal issues where Robby had to sue Polaris. Part of many contracts have no compete clauses or clauses that do not allow you to re-enter the same industry for a specific time period. During this time Robby partnered with Todd Romano in some other ventures. Robby knew he was not done in the SXS industry, and during his non compete time he started developing a UTV on his own out of his own shop. Once his contract expired, he & Todd were free to shopped around with manufactures to partner with to build a UTV to compete with the RZR. This is also why Robby already had so many design & utility patents in his name, and why he is able to use them on his Speed UTV.

My understanding is they talked with several manufactures and Arctic Cat was in the need of a revamp and needed a new flagship model to bring them back into the market. They liked what Robby had designed and signed up with Todd & Robby to build a new sport SXS. From what I know, the contract was for several models & trims. 2 seat, 4 seat, Turbo, long travel edition and a Rock/mud versions.

My understanding was Robby asked Arctic Cat to design the body and front grill/headlight first as that’s the company’s signature, and Robby would adapt it to his chassis and suspension design.

The biggest unknown was the engine/driveline package as Arctic Cat did not have anything in place. I’ve been told their were 3 engines looked at and mounted in the chassis. This actually caused allot of delays until Arctic Cat finalized their engine deal with Yamaha, which made sense being they have a long history in the sled business. But one of the engines Robby said was looked at was the Ford Ecoboost 1.0, 3 cylinder engine. Pretty cool!

Not sure how they ended up at Team Industries for the driveline? But that was probably a good choice for them as Arctic Cats previous drivetrain was not good, and Team had been doing Polaris’s for many years.

Even though this partnership was supposed to show more free range for Robby, the accounting dept. did not see it that way. Like how Polaris is managed, accounting has the final say. This caused some design changes as somethings were seen as a manufacturing challenge or not cost effective. In the end Robby and Arctic Cats own engineers lost to budgets & accounting.

The Wildcat XX was suppose to be released earlier, but Arctic Cat was looking for a buyer as they were facing more financial trouble and delayed the release. They did released a Robby Gordon edition Wildcat X with his rear suspension. This vehicle was used and marketed at Robby’s SST races. But the XX was not a very good kept secret as Robby had been driving a tubed chassis XX around Glamis for about a year. Robby also built two race versions of the XX called Speed Cats, that they debuted at the Baja 1000 in the unlimited class.

Eventually Arctic Cat sold to Textron, who decided the Arctic Cat name was no good and changed it to Textron Off Road. This is what the XX was released as. The Textron Wildcat XX. We all know the brand name change was not a success and was eventually changed back to Arctic Cat. I remember talking to Robby and he was truly excited about Textron buying Arctic Cat, as he knew their history and deep engineering backgroundin aerospace. He thought this would only richen and advance the industry.

Then Textron did not uphold the contract Robby & Todd had with the company and lots of things changed. Textron did not feel several models were needed and contract terms were not upheld too. Unfortunately legal had to get involved and Textron agreed to Todd & Robby’s terms and they were released to do as they pleased. Then Speed UTV was born. Thank you Textron!!!

Here is a picture of the UTV Robby had designed in 2014-15 before signing with Arctic Cat. Max would have been around 6 years old in this picture? Notice no front dif or axles, as he would not have known what would be used, as that would have been manufacture supplied. But for the most part the designed is the same and this became the WildcatXX. Can you imagine if this car was released in 2015! It would have killed the market.
View attachment 253289

Here is a picture of the test mule running around Glamis. The Arctic Cat deal was already done by this point. I’m pretty sure the Yamaha engine was confirmed by this time too, as I believe that’s what was in it. But this was still a year or more before Textron announced or released the WildCatXX.

View attachment 253290

And for those who never thought a 4 seater was in the works. It was! I was told it had already been tested in Glamis, Barstow and had been running around the Arctic Cat test track in MN. This picture was taken some time in Jan-Feb of 2019 at the MN test track in the snow. Then Textron decided there was no market for a 4 seat sport machine and killed it’s release. I had been waiting 2 years for this to get released then was so bummed when I got the call it was not happening.

View attachment 253291

There is a lot more to the story than textron simply releasing them from contractual obligations, Google search speed rmg vs arctic cat and you can find a pdf from the courts on deciding where to hold the trial, they are still going at it as nothing is done except the judgment that court will be held in CA. Speed and arctic cat relationship started to sour back In 2016. Arctic cat claims that Speed did not send official cad drawings to Arctic cat in a timely manner, and also accused robby of using arctic cat trademark without authorization. Also arctic cat states that rmg were claiming a lot of "novitlies" in witch Arctic cat wanted to research to make sure they would not be paying royalties on any design that was already public knowldge or that Arctic cat engineers came up with.
 

·
Registered
2021 Wildcat XX
Joined
·
50 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·

It won't let me put a link to the actual pdf but it's the first thing that pops up when you Google it. It's also available on the above link.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
There is a lot more to the story than textron simply releasing them from contractual obligations, Google search speed rmg vs arctic cat and you can find a pdf from the courts on deciding where to hold the trial, they are still going at it as nothing is done except the judgment that court will be held in CA. Speed and arctic cat relationship started to sour back In 2016. Arctic cat claims that Speed did not send official cad drawings to Arctic cat in a timely manner, and also accused robby of using arctic cat trademark without authorization. Also arctic cat states that rmg were claiming a lot of "novitlies" in witch Arctic cat wanted to research to make sure they would not be paying royalties on any design that was already public knowldge or that Arctic cat engineers came up with.
I know there was allot more to the story, but was not going to go into all the details. I was also told Textron did not want to pay royalties on all Tracker version of the XX as they claimed those are private labeled so not a XX and the royalties were only for Arctic Cat units. Unfortunately when you do business and have million dollar contracts, sometimes these things end up in courts. Like when Robby had to sue Polaris for using his name, likeness and trademarked logos on their new model vehicles after their contract was up. Or like when Specialized sued Speed Energy for the S logo looking to close to the bicycle brands “S”. Thus why the Speed “S” was changed.

But the fact is Robby & Co were able to part ways and start up his own brand and using his patent designs. I don’t know for sure, but I’m guessing they won’t build a direct competing vehicle to the XX. No 64” no N/A engines. Plus he still promotes and talks great praise about the XX all the time. They also continue to support the XX with products on the SpeedSXS.com site.


From the Court Doc;
After this call, Speed RMG asserts that Arctic Cat’s historical issues about the patent application assignment seemed to be resolved. This assertion finds support in the record. On July 31, 2018, the parties met in North Carolina, and Arctic Cat did not raise the patent assignment issue. (Nichols Suppl. Decl. ¶¶ 19‐20.) Nor were any issues raised during later communications in which the parties appear to be working together to have Speed RMG apply for the necessary patents. (Id. ¶ 21, Ex. 3.)
CASE 0:19-cv-00873-NEB-LIB Document 52 Filed 08/16/19 Page 6 of 14
The relationship, however, continued to deteriorate, and in January 2019, Arctic Cat told Speed RMG that while it would sell one of the vehicle models that grew out of the relationship, “there isn’t a business case for any of the other models listed in the agreement that justifies moving forward, and we encourage your team to pursue other partners as appropriate. We are not standing in your way.” [ECF No. 25
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
Regardless, who wants a machine designed by any accounting dept, you get junk accounting is about profitability not reliability, accountants drive BMW not SXS, arctic cat/ textron has a well earned reputation for building selling junk and the X model solidified that reputation, they shamefully abandoned X owners. What the consumer wants from this company is a bullet proof reliable machine free from accounting dept input on reliability, no axle problems, no steering problems, no starter, clutch, or drive line issues......NO MORE JUNK......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Regardless, who wants a machine designed by any accounting dept, you get junk accounting is about profitability not reliability, accountants drive BMW not SXS, arctic cat/ textron has a well earned reputation for building selling junk and the X model solidified that reputation, they shamefully abandoned X owners. What the consumer wants from this company is a bullet proof reliable machine free from accounting dept input on reliability, no axle problems, no steering problems, no starter, clutch, or drive line issues......NO MORE JUNK......
Gord, Overall I’d say the XX is one of the best built machines available today, especially in its price range and category. Sure it’s got a few flaws, but they all do, some have allot more. Your not going to get a Stop Ride Recall on the XX like you might get on a Polaris.

The biggest down side really is the lack of dealers and overall support from Arctic Cat. I have only one dealer in my area (50 mile radius) and at best they have 1 or 2 Wildcat XX’s on the floor. And they will actually show you other brands as they carry all the major brands. It’s a great place to comparison shop.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top