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Hey CRAWLR were you always running 14lbs boost? Im only pushing 10-11lbs since I installed it but scared to push the motor to 14. did you ever get the Push kit yet?
I pretty much set it at 13psi after the first test runs. At the time MCX said it was designed for 13psi and could handle 14psi on pump gas so after a while I bumped it to 14 and left it.

I ran it for over a year with the wet clutch and had no problems and then I added the STM clutch. The STM was way too aggressive and pretty much abused the whole car. But it was fun!
 

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Discussion Starter #42
Something I noticed during my brief test runs: the small Donaldson swirl air cleaner (G065433) with the standard Donaldson filter element is marginal. I reset my filter minder before each test, and afterwards the indicator was very close to the "clean or change your filter" markings. Going into the build my research suggested that the larger version might be a better choice if I was trying to squeeze every HP out of this setup (I'm not), so I went with the version other folks are using.

I plan to try one of the R2C filter elements and see how it performs.
 

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Discussion Starter #43
I should add that the Donaldson is fine until the turbo spools up and the engine starts gulping air.

Crawlr, your oil cooler fan is a great idea, and it is good to know that it delivers real results.

I wonder if there are fans that can reverse direction without reducing reliability. I know any DC fan will spin backwards if the polarity is changed, but the bearings would need to be designed to handle the load with the fan pushing instead of pulling. With proper ducting and a reversing switch, I might have cooler oil all of the time and warmer feet when I need it.
 

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Discussion Starter #44 (Edited)
I talked to three different shops about clutching. One suggested that I run the 'cat with the turbo, then describe what it does and they could go from there. Another shop said they "thought" they had a good starting point based on some of their other power-adders.

I did a test run with the boost turned down and the clutching is so far off all it does is immediately hit the rev limiter. So much for the suggestion that I try it first. I wasn't too keen on the "we think this might work" shop, so I contacted Black Diamond Extreme and they were very helpful. They listened to my hopes of having a clutch setup that would work well at full power and acceptably well at the lower boost level that I expect to run most of the time, then generated a clutch build sheet for both boost levels.

The box arrived with new springs for each clutch, a new helix with a 2 degree change in compound angles, and what I believe is a Magna Force kit for the primary. I have since searched the forum and only found one thread with info about these: http://D: 9405511899561966449414, post #8.

I love the concept - the clutch arms come in 3 or 4 curves, then you can stack up to four magnets in each of the four holes to change the shift force at various RPM. No bolts or clamps, just the very powerful magnets. I had to pry them apart with a knife blade in order to install them in the arms. The magnet holes are open to the trailing side, which makes sense to me - I don't think you could ever accelerate the clutch fast enough to dislodge the magnets, but you might be able to stop it quickly enough. Anyway, cool technology, and it looks like it might even be possible to change weights with the clutch (minus the cover and spring) on the engine.

I'm looking forward to finishing this and getting out on a trail.
 

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Discussion Starter #45
I've been working on the dual radiator project and waiting for parts, but I got everything installed and took my first semi-serious test drive today. I've switched off the EBC (electronic boost controller) and have the wastegate can set to just a bit of pre-load. Holy crap! I'm severely traction limited! I bought 27" Kanati Mongrels before I decided to do the turbo. On our hard-packed gravel driveway, it just lights up the tires and bounces off the rev limiter any time I hold the throttle open. The driveway is just crooked enough that I haven't been able to really lock-in on the gauges, but I think this is at 7 psi. To be totally candid, I was hoping for something a little more docile at the low boost setting. I'm not sure I'll ever switch the EBC on - the MCX controller is programmed for 12 psi, and I don't know how I would use any additional power.

I made about 4 passes up and down our 1/4 mile driveway, then idled the 'cat for a couple of minutes. Temps reached 205f while idling, then started back down. The fans are still controlled by the ECM and they cycled a few times. The weather is cool (high 50's), so this was not much of a stress test, but the double radiator setup seems to be working.

All of my prior CVT experience was with 75 hp on pavement with 12" wide slicks, so I've never even thought about clutching for limited traction. Is it even feasible to clutch this combo so that it won't hit the rev limiter with these tires?
 

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I've been working on the dual radiator project and waiting for parts, but I got everything installed and took my first semi-serious test drive today. I've switched off the EBC (electronic boost controller) and have the wastegate can set to just a bit of pre-load. Holy crap! I'm severely traction limited! I bought 27" Kanati Mongrels before I decided to do the turbo. On our hard-packed gravel driveway, it just lights up the tires and bounces off the rev limiter any time I hold the throttle open. The driveway is just crooked enough that I haven't been able to really lock-in on the gauges, but I think this is at 7 psi. To be totally candid, I was hoping for something a little more docile at the low boost setting. I'm not sure I'll ever switch the EBC on - the MCX controller is programmed for 12 psi, and I don't know how I would use any additional power.

I made about 4 passes up and down our 1/4 mile driveway, then idled the 'cat for a couple of minutes. Temps reached 205f while idling, then started back down. The fans are still controlled by the ECM and they cycled a few times. The weather is cool (high 50's), so this was not much of a stress test, but the double radiator setup seems to be working.

All of my prior CVT experience was with 75 hp on pavement with 12" wide slicks, so I've never even thought about clutching for limited traction. Is it even feasible to clutch this combo so that it won't hit the rev limiter with these tires?
Those temps seem high for just running up and down driveway. Mine rarely gets above 200 only when I on the turbo alot in the dunes and the weather is 90 or above. Maybe air in the system?? Double check that and glad your enjoying. BTW you will want all the 12 psi in Glamis!
 

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Discussion Starter #47
I guess I should have said I made four WOT passes up and down the driveway after getting it fully warmed up. That would have been enough to raise the temp even when my 'cat was stock.
 

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Discussion Starter #48 (Edited)
I have been trying to troubleshoot a bad idle and rough part-throttle running since installing the turbo kit. I've thrown a few parts at it, like a new narrowband oxygen sensor, without solving the problem. I finally remembered that you can see the MAP sensor readings in the diagnostics, so I started looking at the MCX supplier MAP signal converter. When I bypassed the signal converter, my AFR dropped almost two full points and idle smoothed out. The BAR reading without the converter was 930. With the converter it was 898. The signal converter is supposed to keep the OEM ECM from throwing a code when the system makes boost. I briefly got into boost without getting an error, but it was pretty brief.

When I contacted Erik at MCX about the MAP signal converter changing the BAR reading, he had this to say:
Hi Mark.
The MAPsensor voltage converter shall normally not do anything with the air/fuelmixture.
the reasonwhy it is included is to avoid an error code on the dash during turbo pressure.
But if youdon't get any error code, you can gladly drive without it!.
Bestregards Erik Marklund


This is the level of support that I've been getting, or maybe I should say the level of support that I have NOT been getting, because he hasn't been helpful at all. MCX was not aware of changes made starting with the 2015. The exhaust primary pipe would not work with their header, and now I have PROOF that the signal converter does alter AFR. I'm about three days away from contacting VISA and asking that they reverse payment, since selling me this kit for a 2015 was, legally speaking, fraud.

UPDATE: The US distributor convinced me to ignore the fact that the MAP converter doesn't do what Erik says it does and just correct the AFR. That goes against my grain. I expect people to deliver what they say they are going to deliver, but setting that issue aside is probably the best thing to do.
 

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Those temps seem high for just running up and down driveway. Mine rarely gets above 200 only when I on the turbo alot in the dunes and the weather is 90 or above. Maybe air in the system?? Double check that and glad your enjoying. BTW you will want all the 12 psi in Glamis!
Agree that 205 at idle is high. Mine bounces between the fan on/off settings. Did you replace your thermostat?
 

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Discussion Starter #50 (Edited)
I now have two 195f thermostats, one for each cylinder.

I think the 205 reading may reflect the location of the temp senders. The OEM placement is 7 of 8 inches removed from the front cylinder head, and heat doesn't migrate through rubber hose very well, so all it ever sees is coolant temp. My senders are in the new coolant outlet fittings attached to the cylinder heads. I suspect there is some heat migration directly through the aluminum to the senders. At the time that I decided to locate them there, I thought that having the ECM sender running a little hotter than previously would be an okay thing - it would result in the fan(s) turning on sooner. And of course it was easier to incorporate them into the outlets I was making instead of making separate fittings just for the senders.

Whatever the case, 205 was really brief. I saw it for a couple of seconds right after the fan turned on. Within maybe 15 seconds, it was back to 195ish and the fan turned off. I would see 205 a lot when pushing the normally aspirated engine hard.

That said, I will watch coolant temps closely until I am certain they are under control. The add-on gauge has an alarm setting. I really like having that.
 

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Discussion Starter #51
MCX and the US distributor are not replying to my emails. When I first discovered that the kit could not be installed on a 2015 and newer Wildcat due to changes in the exhaust, MCX agreed to reimburse me for the cost of a used 2014 exhaust primary. I've been trying to get reimbursed for over a month. My last email asked them to at least let me know if they have no intention of carrying through their promise, but... crickets.

I've advised them that their signal converter ruins idle and part throttle running, but they've offered no solutions, no suggestions, nothing. I've spent a few hundred bucks and probably 40 hours of research and testing to sort out this kit that the manual claims "The MCX- EFI-box is programmed with the right settings to your vehicle, and does not need to be changed."

So that is the bad news. The good news is that I can run the setup to about 7 psi without getting over-boost error codes from the ECM, and it is a BLAST to drive, even at limited boost. We ran it semi-hard for about 4 hours today. Water temps stayed below 200f, AFRs were a little rich while in boost and a little lean while not, but I haven't done any really serious tuning on the in-boost AFRs (the off-boost AFRs are controlled by the OEM ECM using the narrowband sensor - I can't really do anything about that). It is as if there is a direct connection between the accelerator pedal and my smile.

One interesting side-note: I sent Black Diamond the MCX provided dyno sheet, which showed a 2012 Wildcat making 150 hp @ 12 psi. Black Diamond's setup sheet for that was 3 magnets in each of the 4 holes per flyweight. I'm running 15 (the weights only take 16) and on pavement I have to lift at around 60 mph to keep from bouncing off the rev limiter.
 

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That a shame. There are at least two approaches to sort out the issues and unfortunately both would be pricy. The first would be to find a good tuner with hands on experience with the MCX system on Wildcats if one exists. The second would be to do it yourself which would require a wide-band afr display with logging capability, a fuel map injector pulse altering system like DynoJet and a lot of time.
 

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Discussion Starter #53 (Edited)
The first option won't work, or at least it won't work for part-throttle operation below ~ 5500 rpm: the OEM ECM counteracts any additional fuel added to the MCX fuel table. You can watch the AFR go nicely rich for an instant, and then it fades back to lean as the OEM ECM reads the narrowband and removes fuel. It performs as if AC set the AFR target at 15 something.

As I wrote back in post #8, the MCX map signal converter drops the map signal as soon as the ignition switch is turned on, telling the ECM that the air density is lower than reality. The interesting thing about this, and something I hope can be corrected, is that the OEM ECM doesn't react. There is no attempt to add fuel and get the AFR back to the mid-15's that I see without the MCX converter. It will idle and run (very, very poorly) at part throttle in the high 16 to 17 range. Why have the hardware necessary to read and adjust AFR and not use it??

I'm hoping that this was an oversight by AC that got fixed with a software update. To that end, I've asked one of my local dealers to check and see if there was an ECM update for the 2015 ECM. I don't have a relationship with any of the area dealers (I do all of my own maintenance and repair work), so I'm not sure if they will put any effort into this, and AC doesn't let their regional service techs talk to customers. I guess this is the dark side of being able to do all of your own work - you may get cutoff from valuable resources.

I've also asked Evo if their ECM flash would correct the problem. They replied that they don't do custom software tuning, which I'm not asking for. I just wanted to know if part of their re-flash dealt with setting a new AFR target. I'm not ready to blow $500 on the chance that it does.

If I fully understand Gary's second suggestion (a piggyback altering the OEM injector signal), that would result in the OEM ECM doing it's thing, a piggyback reacting to what the OEM ECM is doing and altering it, then having the MCX fuel controller running the boost control solenoid valve and the extra injectors. Technically possible, realistically improbable. If there is a piggyback fuel system that is capable of simultaneously altering the pulse width of the OEM injectors while operating the two add-on MCX injectors, I could remove the MCX fuel controller. I haven't investigated this much, but most devices seem to operate in one mode (altering the injector signal) or the other (controlling injectors based on their own calculations).
 

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I know nothing about the MCX controller. I have set up two turbo bikes and a G35 car with the same basic fueling system. Off-boost uses the OEM fuel map and fuel pressure so very little if any adjustment is necessary. On-boost employs a rising rate fuel pressure regulator that adds fuel as a ratio of boost pressure. There are two major advantages of this system 1) The use of OEM fueling for off-boost makes tuning a lot simpler and 2) By increasing fuel pressure under boost the OEM injectors can support a lot more hp thereby eliminating the need for larger injectors.
As explained in my previous post it does require a wide band afr display/sensor with logging capability and the hardware to adjust the injector pulse width as needed for boost conditions.

The last option you mentioned is what I suggested in my #2 except I would not use the MCX controller because there is no reason to have two. Their using supplimental injectors under boost should work with any pulse controller it just requires adding the correct values to hit the desired afr. My reason for not using the MCX controller is simply that I have no idea how it works or know how to effect the necessary injector pulse width changes.

Maybe this will be helpful maybe not but - A modern ECU will either have fixed afr fueling (closed cycle) across the map or will just use that method for high throttle settings and then adjust low throttle setting based upon readings from a wide band sensor (open cycle). The reasoning for the two step approach is that it can provide better emissions control at low throttle settings and then use fixed values at high throttle settings when the sensor readings are too slow to keep up with the rpm change.
It sounds like your ECU may be a two step but only the factory manual could tell you exactly how it operates. For sure it would be chasing the afr near 14.7 - 1 off-boost. The system I described works well with a two step ECU since you let it run with the OEM controls when off-boost and the just worry about the on-boost fixed fueling values for map adjustments.
Sounds like something in the MCX controller is keeping the stock ECU from using the 14.7 - 1 closed cycle target A/F.
 

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If I fully understand Gary's second suggestion (a piggyback altering the OEM injector signal), that would result in the OEM ECM doing it's thing, a piggyback reacting to what the OEM ECM is doing and altering it, then having the MCX fuel controller running the boost control solenoid valve and the extra injectors. Technically possible, realistically improbable. If there is a piggyback fuel system that is capable of simultaneously altering the pulse width of the OEM injectors while operating the two add-on MCX injectors, I could remove the MCX fuel controller. I haven't investigated this much, but most devices seem to operate in one mode (altering the injector signal) or the other (controlling injectors based on their own calculations).
From what little I know about the MCX controller it sounds like its only function may be to operate turn fuel on/off to the supplimental injectors and to adjust their pulse width under boost. If thats all it does then it has no effect on the ECU injectors pulse width anywhere on the map. Simple way to know is that all piggy back controllers take the ECU injector pulses, change them based upon user input and then routes the signals on to the OEM injectors. That requires running the injector signals through the piggyback controller. If there is no modification to the OEM injector harness then the controllers only job is to adjust the supplimental injectors during boost.

If this is the case the only fly in the ointment is how the MCX controller is effecting off-boost fueling? Do you have the set up wiring instructions? Have you researched the internet for info regarding set up and use of the MCX controller? If you knew exactly how it is suppose to work and had a way to make your own adjusts of the supplimental injectors it might be possible to sort out what you already have.
 

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Discussion Starter #56
Thanks for the reply, Gary. I appreciate your views.

I have some experience with an aftermarket replacement ECM for my turbo Miata, so the concepts are not new to me. I used larger injectors on the Miata, with a slight decrease in idle quality since they were operating at very short intervals at idle. The MCX kit looked attractive since it was described to do exactly what you wrote: off-boost using the OEM capabilities, on-boost using their add-on injectors. I had already learned that the kit from Brown's Leisure World (using just two injectors) would not idle with X cams.

I know I can nail down the on-boost fueling using the MCX hardware, which seems to be an outgrowth of a MicroSquirt or MegaSquirt. They use MegaTune to tune the MCX controller. I have full control over the fueling table with very good resolution (the RPM and boost bandwidth of each cell).

I'm still hoping to find that Arctic Cat recognized that the narrowband somehow was not compensating for BARO bias and issued an ECM software update. Or perhaps Evo recognized and fixed this issue. If I strike out, I'll look at a different piggy.
 

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As I wrote back in post #8, the MCX map signal converter drops the map signal as soon as the ignition switch is turned on, telling the ECM that the air density is lower than reality. The interesting thing about this, and something I hope can be corrected, is that the OEM ECM doesn't react. There is no attempt to add fuel and get the AFR back to the mid-15's that I see without the MCX converter. It will idle and run (very, very poorly) at part throttle in the high 16 to 17 range. Why have the hardware necessary to read and adjust AFR and not use it??
Do you know what the rational was for altering air density?
 

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Discussion Starter #58 (Edited)
The device is supposed to alter (decrease) the MAP signal when the engine goes into boost. If the ECM sees a MAP signal too high, it will throw a code. MCX says it does not affect AFR, which I am interpreting to mean it should not alter the MAP signal when the engine is not in boost, because any change in the MAP signal DOES change AFR per my testing.

When I tested the device, I got a BARO reading of ~890 as soon as I switched on the ignition. After starting, the BARO reading is unchanged and my idle is very lean and somewhat unstable. Part-throttle running is SUPER lean and it runs like crap (if I had not ceramic coated the combustion chambers and pistons, I would have been afraid to drive it with such lean AFRs). If I jumper the MAP signal around the device, the BARO reading rises by nearly 40 points, my idle AFR and part throttle running is just a little lean, but more or less the same as what it was before the turbo and AFR gauge installation.

As I've mentioned before, I'm really confused as to why the narrowband sensor is not in play.

Is there anyone out there with an EVO flash on a 2015 ECM that would let me borrow it for a day? Not the turbo version, just the exhaust and/or intake mod flash. I would like to see if they recognized that the narrowband should be allowed to correct AFR under these conditions. Evo got way deep into the ECM code when they wrote their own ECM code to run their turbo setup without an additional fuel controller.
 

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The device is supposed to alter (decrease) the MAP signal when the engine goes into boost. If the ECM sees a MAP signal too high, it will throw a code. MCX says it does not affect AFR, which I am interpreting to mean it should not alter the MAP signal when the engine is not in boost, because any change in the MAP signal DOES change AFR per my testing.

When I tested the device, I got a BARO reading of ~890 as soon as I switched on the ignition. After starting, the BARO reading is unchanged and my idle is very lean and somewhat unstable. Part-throttle running is SUPER lean and it runs like crap (if I had not ceramic coated the combustion chambers and pistons, I would have been afraid to drive it with such lean AFRs). If I jumper the MAP signal around the device, the BARO reading rises by nearly 40 points, my idle AFR and part throttle running is just a little lean, but more or less the same as what it was before the turbo and AFR gauge installation.
This paragraph possibly explains what is happening to the idle fueling. Your motor uses an intake air pressure sensor (manifold absolute pressure sensor) that measures vacumm under the throttle blades to control the idle A/F. I found the part in a factory manual but it only explains how to test it and not how it works. It just so happens that my current turbocharged Hayabusa also uses this idle fueling method so I know the problem created when forced induction is added. Your sensor may very well have more functions than mine but if I explain the Hayabusa solution it will make more sense.
The Hayabusa sensor only measures vacumm which works with a normally aspriated motor but when you add forced induction it will also see positive pressure as the throttle is opened. When that occurs the ECU thinks something is wrong and throws an error code. Some early developers solved it by adding a resistor that dampens the sensor output signal. They tried to keep it a secret by putting the resistor in a sealed box and called it a "fuel mapper". Another simple fix was to add a hose tee in the signal line and install a check valve that would vent any positive pressure to keep the ECU happy.
While you sensor may be more complex I'm pretty sure the MCX intent was to retain the OEM idle fueling but the turbo boost must have caused a problem such as occurred on the Hayabusa. If you knew exactly how the sensor worked you maybe could figure it out from what you had to change in the sensor interface to the MCX controller. In your case something isn't working as expected which could be in the wiring interface to the MCX controller or in the sensor itself. You could try disconnecting the MCX controller interface to see for yourself what problem adding boost causes. Does the sensor use a hose connection to the intake manifold, if so you could try adding a check valve after disconnecting the interface?

THe sensor only
 
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