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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi wildcat community. I've been arround here but never posted. I've got a 2012 wildcat with a speedwerx supercharger kit on it. I'm having some trouble with it and not sure where to look. I've checked compression valve tappet clearance and spark plugs are new. Plugs that I took out of the machine are sooty powdery black. Fueling is controlled by a power commander. The map was sent out with the charger as part of the kit and has run great. Machine started running rough midway through out a ride. I thought it was possibly limp mode since it died and barely started back do to a weak battery. I turned off my added accessories and let the machine idle for a while. Seemed to do the trick. No more issues until later that day. Noticed slight missing and popping backfiring on decel. Loaded on trailor and brought home for the day. To backtrack. It was muddy and wet. Had not had the machine out in those conditions before since the build and I've only run the machine a couple times prior since it's a recent purchase. When I got it home after this ride I cleaned all the mud off. Had efi fuse blowing. Found it to be a short in the brake light wire that had melted above the exhaust. Also pulled the plugs and found them sooted. Replaced the plugs. Machine intermittently misses pops but then can run perfect minuites later. Seems to be effected more at mid to low rpm. At full throttle seems to get better. I took all my connectors apart cleaned with contact cleaner and used dialectic grease on them. I don't know where to look. I'm figuring it's a fueling or spark related issue. By the sooty plugs I was thinking more of a spark issue. Anyone have any ideas. Would greatly appreciate your comments
 

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Have you checked the charging voltage? If something has happened with magneto and not charging you will not have enough voltage to run properly
 
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Check your air intake system for mud/water leaking in. Check the throttle body area for any evidence of dirt or water getting in.
Is your alternator/regulator working properly?
Is the engine running cold?
 

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Welcome Hellcat. Could be any number of things. Check what the guys mentioned, and get back to us.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hey guys. Thanks for the replies. I have checked intake piping. All tight. No leakage. And it's running poorly now that it's dry out and everything is dried out. It is intermittent. It can miss sputter and then take off and run perfect and go back to missing popping just like that.. As far as the charging voltage I have checked and when the machine is running it reads 14volts. I have not looked at it when the machine is running poorly to see if it is still 14 volts. It seems to be charging fine. The battery got low during my ride and that seems to be when this problem started but after turning my radio of and clutch fan and letting sit idle it started to run normal again. I didn't charge the battery after my ride and the next no dragging start. As far as temp I don't think it's running cold. The fan has been cycling at the time that this has occurred. It seems like it would be a poor connection or an intermittent electrical part failing.
 

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It does sound electrical, but keep an open mind. If your Cat has a Park position, it will have a rev limiter that causes the engine to barely run above idle. I suppose it has a switch on the shift cable/lever/linkage somwhere. If something is intermittently allowing that switch to close, or the related wiring to short, it could cause your symptoms. There is also a max RPM limiter that kicks in at high engine speed... 7650 (?) I don't know if it's inter-tied with the park rev limit or not.
 

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Get electrical cleaner in a can. Pull apart your elec connections and spray it all over both ends. Put dielectric grease in there and push back together. Also, do you have a meter where you can check the output of the mag? There's also a thread around here about the mag plug and I think it was the rhino plug that you could solder in if it's defective.
 

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Fluffy soot sounds like too much gas. Are you getting black smoke at the exhaust, specially when it's acting up?

If you have a cat converter, it could mask flooding and prevent black smoke. It would get very hot pretty quick if it was burning off an over rich mixture.

Oxygen sensor? Oxygen sensor wiring/plugs?

If it thinks it's getting boost when it isn't, it might go way too rich. (Guessing)
 

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Hey guys. Thanks for the replies. I have checked intake piping. All tight. No leakage. And it's running poorly now that it's dry out and everything is dried out. It is intermittent. It can miss sputter and then take off and run perfect and go back to missing popping just like that.. As far as the charging voltage I have checked and when the machine is running it reads 14volts. I have not looked at it when the machine is running poorly to see if it is still 14 volts. It seems to be charging fine. The battery got low during my ride and that seems to be when this problem started but after turning my radio of and clutch fan and letting sit idle it started to run normal again. I didn't charge the battery after my ride and the next no dragging start. As far as temp I don't think it's running cold. The fan has been cycling at the time that this has occurred. It seems like it would be a poor connection or an intermittent electrical part failing.
It seems odd but the Cat won't run with a battery that is "beginning" to crap out. We had one that would charge up but would go down fast during a ride and then needed a jump start. The motor was stumbling and craping out.

What's happnening may be the cells are "intermittently" shorting and the alternator can't keep up with the big draw from the battery. Then the ECM doesn't have full voltage and the spark gets fowled up too.

We put in a new battery and the machine ran fine again all day. :cool:
 

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A shorted cell might load the charging system down enough to overwhelm the alternator, especially if other stuff was drawing power.

I've seen stone dead batteries show 12 + volts on a voltmeter... but not be able to accept any charge at all.

A load test might reveal a battery problem.

I've had ATV batteries go dry in service. Looked fine, but wouldn't perform. A shorted cell might allow the remaining cells to overcharge.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I'm in the process of relocating the battery so I can run a yellow top optima. I was hoping to have it done tonight but ran out of time. I'm hoping it has something to do with the battery but even if it does not it will be a nice upgrade from stock. As far as someone mentioned I did pull all connections apart cleaned and put dielectric grease in and machine still ran poorly. I know it could still be a poor connection somewhere but did not notice anything besides the map sensor on the throttle body. 1 pin looked green corroded. I popped the pin out of the connector cleaned best I could and reassembled. No change. I will update tommorow after the battery is ruled out.
 

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Before you go re-locating battery for room for an Optima consider the Odyessy PC925. These are Mil. spec. and fit right in.
 
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" know it could still be a poor connection somewhere but did not notice anything besides the ***map sensor on the throttle body. 1 pin looked green corroded."**** ///

I'd triple check that. A problem related to the MAP function could cause misfiring and sooted plugs. The voltage/current output of most sensor devices is very low, and they can be very sensitive to any slight connection/short problem. Corrosion usually signals a high resistance connection or water/battery acid damage. Beyond that, it's even possible that interference radiated by a sound system or other added electronic accessory could cause "noise" in the sensor circuit and confuse the ECM... even with perfect wiring.

A loose or improperly mounted "Tip Switch" might cause your problem. Any problem with the related connectors/wiring might also.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I appreciate the input and advice. I did look in to the pc925 battery. I decided against it. I didn't want to run 2 batteries do to cost and having 2 batteries to worry with. And I didn't want to run just 1 even though it may had been enough for my needs. I'd rather overdo it. I hate dealing with battery issues so I elected to run an optima. I mounted it in behind the glove box. I did have to give up the massive amount of storage the glove box used to provide. I'm sure there will be mixed reviews on my choice of battery and location but I think it turned out pretty nice. As far as my issue . I haven't had it out very much at all. Up and down the street twice. but so far no missing. I'm hoping this is all it was but it is hard for me to believe that could have been the issue. The machine would start no dragging and read the correct voltage. I'm going to have it checked, the old battery, and hope it has a bad cell so I can put this to rest. Here's a pic of the new glove box.
 

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I appreciate the input and advice. I did look in to the pc925 battery. I decided against it. I didn't want to run 2 batteries do to cost and having 2 batteries to worry with. And I didn't want to run just 1 even though it may had been enough for my needs. I'd rather overdo it. I hate dealing with battery issues so I elected to run an optima. I mounted it in behind the glove box. I did have to give up the massive amount of storage the glove box used to provide. I'm sure there will be mixed reviews on my choice of battery and location but I think it turned out pretty nice. As far as my issue . I haven't had it out very much at all. Up and down the street twice. but so far no missing. I'm hoping this is all it was but it is hard for me to believe that could have been the issue. The machine would start no dragging and read the correct voltage. I'm going to have it checked, the old battery, and hope it has a bad cell so I can put this to rest. Here's a pic of the new glove box.
Man, that's a big battery! There have been cases of bad batteries, maybe you had one.
 

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So does your PC V have Auto Tune?? Have you accessed the hardware to see the PC V settings?

You can set your warm up AFR pretty rich. It can be controlled by time or by engine temp. So maybe something to look at. A good investment for running a forced induction engine would be and AFR gauge per cylinder. This will ensure you are mixing the same AFR for both.

Anyone have PC V issues let me know.....I have been using one since they were released for testing way back when. So I am pretty up on most issues. I run them on my families' Street bikes, sleds and my Wildcat.

On Edit: A low battery will mess with PC V
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
So does your PC V have Auto Tune?? Have you accessed the hardware to see the PC V settings?

You can set your warm up AFR pretty rich. It can be controlled by time or by engine temp. So maybe something to look at. A good investment for running a forced induction engine would be and AFR gauge per cylinder. This will ensure you are mixing the same AFR for both.

Anyone have PC V issues let me know.....I have been using one since they were released for testing way back when. So I am pretty up on most issues. I run them on my families' Street bikes, sleds and my Wildcat.

On Edit: A low battery will mess with PC V

I do have the duel O2 sensor auto tune along with the lcd screen. I was told by speedwerx that they did not suggest running auto tune on a boosted engine or with their sc kit that is. They just suggest having it to be able to monitor but not make adjustments. They have designed a custom map to make fuel adjustments for this kit I'm running. I did try running it on and the machine ran like garbage. That's before I spoke with them about it. It does seem like it runs rich. I don't know much about it. Very little really. Full throttle I think it's right. Mid to low I think it's rich. Sounds odd but at idle and low rpm it reduces fuel by 10% and runs afr of 14 or so.
 

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I do have the duel O2 sensor auto tune along with the lcd screen. I was told by speedwerx that they did not suggest running auto tune on a boosted engine or with their sc kit that is. They just suggest having it to be able to monitor but not make adjustments. They have designed a custom map to make fuel adjustments for this kit I'm running. I did try running it on and the machine ran like garbage. That's before I spoke with them about it. It does seem like it runs rich. I don't know much about it. Very little really. Full throttle I think it's right. Mid to low I think it's rich. Sounds odd but at idle and low rpm it reduces fuel by 10% and runs afr of 14 or so.
Ok a couple of things....first thing the 10 in the map does not represent a 10% change. I will help with that more as we go and you will better understand how it all works. Now for the bad news. That 14 AFR you see in the map is doing you absolutely zero if you do not have the AT activated. Also a 14 AFR really is not a very good AFR unless you are at sea level and very light load. If that AFR is a map setting at idle I have never had good luck using an AFR setting in the idle zone. Also you should have two AFR numbers, one for each O2 sensor. One cylinder could be fat.

The good news is you do have the LCD and me.

What I have found with most tunes and tuners (Please no one take offense. This is my personal experience and dealing with aftermarket stuff like the PC V and dyno operators. There is one guy I trust almost 100% and that is Jim at Dyno Tech Research. I have learned much from him and dealing with him in years past and watching his live dyno feeds) is that they don't take the time or may not have the ability to properly tune an engine from idle to max rpm. You have already stated that your machine runs good at WOT and this is a good chance that the tune was built on a dyno. Issue is that they miss most of the real world where we operate our machines in the tuning process. This is where the LCD screen and data logging is going to come in to help smooth your machine out.

SO a couple of questions....you have had the PC V hooked to your computer to look at your map? DO you know how to change the settings for the PC V? How about data logging? If not then I suggest a couple of bathroom breaks with the owner's manual on the PC V, AT and the LCD. This will help me get you on the fast track to helping your machine. Most of what you are describing is almost the same issues I have seen on my Harley and my sled. I hope you have a laptop also this will make things a breeze for you. Get the PC V software loaded on it and get your cable to hook up to the PC V.

The first thing I would like you to do is hook the laptop up or data log your idle AFR. I need the readings the PC V is seeing. Also I need to know if there is any numbers on your base map in the 0% throttle column and to what rpm level they go. If you don't mind download the base map to your computer and see if it will post here. If it won't maybe I can get a moderator to help us out.

If you hookup your laptop and want to see how changes affect things make a change on your base map in the 0% column and where the engine idles at, after you make the change send it to the PC V, watch the AFR change. NOTE: always go positive numbers(richer) unless your AFR is already at 12 to 1. This will help you understand the numbers a little better on the map. U will find that you may have to make at least a 25 point change to see any difference. It takes about a minute to make the change. The numbers that you are changing is actually milliseconds that the injector is operating in addition to regular injector timing. One issue with fuel injection is that you can easily find that you have max'd out your injectors with just a few mods. You need to keep the duty cycle of the injector under 80% for things to work correctly.

So did they make any fuel pressure adjustments, injector changes that you know of?

Get in the mode of playing with the PC V some. Get the map off the PC V and saved to your computer as backup to fall back too. There are some settings I need more info on and that you need to know about that you can only get with a computer. Set laptop up to get a whole bunch of readings with the machine running, and yes you can pull your map off the machine with it running or upload a new one.

I will call you if we get to a point and your not sure, to help you understand the system better. I help tune V Rods with PC V's Internationally so I am pretty sure we can get to the bottom of what's happening with your machine.

So everyone is clear. There is no system out there that is just a plug and play system. Some may get lucky and it works for them others will tune them to the very edge but in reality just like us, everyone is different.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Wildcatmaniac I appreciate your willingness to help me get the fueling dialed in on my rig. I will do some data logging here soon and send that to you and see if you can help me interpret it and what changes need to be made. I rode a little today after completing the battery relocation and no missing so far. Fingers crossed that battery is what it was. But I know it's running rich and I'd like to get that sorted. I'm waiting on a new exhaust. When I get it installed I'll put a few hrs on the machine and then data log. If you don't mind me hollering at you then.
 
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