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Th clutch springs are rated at how many pounds it takes when it is installed and then how many pounds at whatever the height is at full shift.

The XX compresses the primary spring to 2.5" when you install it and full shift is at about 1.4".

The manufacturers rate at all different heights so it is really hard to get an accurate number. Common ratings are 2.7-1.7, 2.5-1.5, 2 9/16-1 5/16, and several others.

I have been measuring at 2.5 and 1.5 just to get a baseline.

Here's some of my results

Speedwerx Blue stripe rated at 80-190 measures 72-154
Venom black/red/white rated at 92-190 measures 70-158
My stock spring was rated 96-225 and it measured 72-146
And then a few Arctic Cat snowmobile springs
60-220 measured 92-260
85-235 measured 106-250
and a few others

As you can see the XX is different that everything. It's a pain in the ass to get it right.

I just got a spring that is 35-195 and it measures 60-220. I'm pretty excited about this spring. Low engagement is awesome and the top end should be a lot closer to where we want it.
what is this spring that measures 60-220? i just but in the speedwerx blue with 52.9 gram speedwerx weights and a 35-50 helix. i ride at 4-12K feet.
 

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what is this spring that measures 60-220? i just but in the speedwerx blue with 52.9 gram speedwerx weights and a 35-50 helix. i ride at 4-12K feet.
Where are you from. That's exactly the elevations I ride in. From Utah to Colorado. Which is where I'm from.
 

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I live in Littleton, ride in Colorado and Utah, Moab as often as possible. I'll post up more here as I dial this in. Started with the Speedwerx kit for 32"+ tires and 6K+ ft, IMO it has not worked. Todd G. on Facebook has been really helpful in helping me dial this in. I need to go find a parking lot this week to test the new blue primary spring. After that I am going to try the venom helix, after that I'll start dropping weight. Todd runs really light on these.
 

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I live in Littleton, ride in Colorado and Utah, Moab as often as possible. I'll post up more here as I dial this in. Started with the Speedwerx kit for 32"+ tires and 6K+ ft, IMO it has not worked. Todd G. on Facebook has been really helpful in helping me dial this in. I need to go find a parking lot this week to test the new blue primary spring. After that I am going to try the venom helix, after that I'll start dropping weight. Todd runs really light on these.
I'm from Glenwood springs. If you look back in this thread you'll see what I have for a set up. I'm on stock tires still. But I'm really close. I did a trip to Utah 2 weeks ago to test and look for camping spots when we can go again. I hit 9200 to 9500 rpm at 5000'.
 

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Discussion Starter #45
I have some real world results now. We spent the weekend at about 3000ft and up and the clutch worked awesome.

I started with 3 magnets in the heal of the adjustable weights, the Speedwerx blue stripe spring, and the stock helix.
Engagement was 2500 and WOT was 8600.

I switched to the AC 35-195 spring and the engagement went down to 2400 and the WOT was up to 8800.

Then I put in the Venom 36-45 helix and the engagement stayed 2400 but the WOT went to 9100-9300 depending on conditions. The Venom helix is non-ebs which means no engine braking and I learned that I like engine braking. If you want to get on and off the throttle without slowing the car down then this is the helix for you.

Engagement, rock crawling, acceleration, fast twisty trails, slow technical trails, wide open flying, half throttle cruising, were all the best they have ever been in this car. The only thing I want to be better is the hold back going down steep hills so I don't have to ride the brakes on technical rocky decents.

Personally I want the car to do what my right foot is doing. The stock helix has a pretty aggressive EBS and I want something in the middle. I think the Speedwerx might be the right one but it is twice the money of the others.
 

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So the setup should be a 36-45 Helix with EBS, a AC 35-195 spring, and 3 magnets in the heel. Couple of questions; 1) is the AC 35-195 spring the stock spring for the XX, and 2) Which manufacturer did you get the arms from to hold the magnets?
 

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I was testing my setup in a parking lot today. Mind you I'm carrying a spare, a box of tools, and a cooler so coming in heavy. I am also running 33" tires that are in the last 1/4 of their life and only measure 31" now on the car. I tested today on asphalt at 5700ft, I have a Speedwerx blue spring, engagement was at ~2800, this was an improvement from the red spring that came in their kit, besides being a lower RPM it was smoother. I have portions of the Speedwerx kit on it too. I have their 52.9 gram weights, their 35-50 helix and secondary spring from their 32"+ and 6kft+ kit. WOT in low gear it would hit 9000-9100 before dropping back to 8800. WOT in high gear it would hit 8700-8800.
 

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Discussion Starter #48
So the setup should be a 36-45 Helix with EBS, a AC 35-195 spring, and 3 magnets in the heel. Couple of questions; 1) is the AC 35-195 spring the stock spring for the XX, and 2) Which manufacturer did you get the arms from to hold the magnets?
I can't tell you what it "should" be. I can tell you what works so far. Speedwerx has a 35-45 helix that looks like it has a good EBS but I won't know until I get it. The 35-195 spring is some random snowmobile spring I found that should not work but it is awesome so far.

I think you may already have the Speed clutch kit in that car so just the primary spring could be the ticket. I could send you the next best primary spring to try and get an idea what you really want. Text me your address
 

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tried the supposed 100/250 and it was no where close engagement even with weights is 3300 and 3700 without more heal weight and rpms are still around 8400

I want to try the ac springs but dang they are expensive for trial and error
 

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Where are you guys getting this AC 35-195 spring from?

@CRAWLR Have you measured the primary spring that comes in the Speed clutch kit? Curious to see how it stacks up to the OEM primary, I know engagement is signifincalty higher, but curious on top end....
 

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Discussion Starter #51
Where are you guys getting this AC 35-195 spring from?

@CRAWLR Have you measured the primary spring that comes in the Speed clutch kit? Curious to see how it stacks up to the OEM primary, I know engagement is signifincalty higher, but curious on top end....
The 35-195 spring is AC part no 0646-467. There is also a 35-215 that I would like to try. AC no 0646-468.

I have not seen a Speed spring yet. I want to know what it is.
 

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The 35-195 spring is AC part no 0646-467. There is also a 35-215 that I would like to try. AC no 0646-468.

I have not seen a Speed spring yet. I want to know what it is.
PM me your address and I will ship you one to play with. I might order up that 35-215 and see how it does....
 

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Discussion Starter #53
Got the Speed spring today. It's a 120-280 from BD-Xtreme. It measures 130-295 on my gauge at 2.5/1.5
Now I understand why Speed runs so many magnets in their weights.
I have the same weights from BD-Xtreme and I only have magnets in the heal.

I tried a heavier spring and more weight and I didn't like it as much when I had the stock helix with engine braking. It seemed more jumpy/snappy like a manual trans. I like it a little more lazy like an auto so that's why I set out to find a setup that didn't need as much weight.

With a helix that has no engine braking the heavier setup might be better. I tried a non-EBS helix with the lighter weights and spring and it just freewheeled when you let off the throttle. BD-Xtreme just cut me a helix with a mild EBS curve cut in it. Should put me right where I want to be.
 

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Got the Speed spring today. It's a 120-280 from BD-Xtreme. It measures 130-295 on my gauge at 2.5/1.5
Now I understand why Speed runs so many magnets in their weights.
I have the same weights from BD-Xtreme and I only have magnets in the heal.

I tried a heavier spring and more weight and I didn't like it as much when I had the stock helix with engine braking. It seemed more jumpy/snappy like a manual trans. I like it a little more lazy like an auto so that's why I set out to find a setup that didn't need as much weight.

With a helix that has no engine braking the heavier setup might be better. I tried a non-EBS helix with the lighter weights and spring and it just freewheeled when you let off the throttle. BD-Xtreme just cut me a helix with a mild EBS curve cut in it. Should put me right where I want to be.
I just ordered my $72 AC primary spring. LOL

With that 35-215 primary spring, how much arm weight do you think it would need?

Might try starting with 2-1-1-1 in my speed arms and see how it goes. I am using their kit (helix, secondary sproings and arms).
 

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Discussion Starter #55
I just ordered my $72 AC primary spring. LOL

With that 35-215 primary spring, how much arm weight do you think it would need?

Might try starting with 2-1-1-1 in my speed arms and see how it goes. I am using their kit (helix, secondary sproings and arms).
A while back you said you are at 9000 rpm with the stock primary spring. The new spring should be between the stock spring and the Speed spring on the top end with low engagement. 2-1-1-1 sounds like a good start. Too much weight might drag the belt at idle with the soft initial rate of the spring
 

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I'd just like to say that it has been fun and educational following along with you guys.

My first race car was a very small formula car with a 2 stroke snowmobile engine and clutches. Everyone in our class would watch air density carefully, then change the jetting. And since they were changing their jetting, they would also change their clutch setup, chasing their jetting. I put a single channel data recorder (this was in the late '80s) on the car to capture engine RPM (shift curve) and quickly came to the conclusion that all I really needed to do was get the jetting close and maintain my clutches. I won a lot of races where the competition was faster in qualifying, but "came back to me" for the race. Guys would have 5 or 6 helixes, another half dozen primary clutch springs and a bunch of different arms. I was soooo boring, running the same setup everywhere we went, but I did make it a point to have a bunch of different clutch parts spread out on my workbench just in case someone strolled by. Fun times!
 

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I'd just like to say that it has been fun and educational following along with you guys.

My first race car was a very small formula car with a 2 stroke snowmobile engine and clutches. Everyone in our class would watch air density carefully, then change the jetting. And since they were changing their jetting, they would also change their clutch setup, chasing their jetting. I put a single channel data recorder (this was in the late '80s) on the car to capture engine RPM (shift curve) and quickly came to the conclusion that all I really needed to do was get the jetting close and maintain my clutches. I won a lot of races where the competition was faster in qualifying, but "came back to me" for the race. Guys would have 5 or 6 helixes, another half dozen primary clutch springs and a bunch of different arms. I was soooo boring, running the same setup everywhere we went, but I did make it a point to have a bunch of different clutch parts spread out on my workbench just in case someone strolled by. Fun times!

I would have been just like you once I found the combination I liked. I didn't want to be the guy with all the clutch parts, I just wanted someone to tell me how to get to where I wanted to be. Unfortunately nobody has a combination that does what I want. I've tried so many things that people recommended just to find out that they only 'know' that what they have is the 'best' because it is what they have. I finally have a decent understanding of why all those things didn't work and I'm just starting to understand what I actually want. I'm ready to be done with it and never touch it again lol


There was a time I thought I would be swapping parts for different riding conditions and I didn't like that idea. Now I'm pretty sure I will have the 'best of both worlds' and I can just leave the damn thing alone.
 

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Got the Speed spring today. It's a 120-280 from BD-Xtreme. It measures 130-295 on my gauge at 2.5/1.5
Now I understand why Speed runs so many magnets in their weights.
I have the same weights from BD-Xtreme and I only have magnets in the heal.

I tried a heavier spring and more weight and I didn't like it as much when I had the stock helix with engine braking. It seemed more jumpy/snappy like a manual trans. I like it a little more lazy like an auto so that's why I set out to find a setup that didn't need as much weight.

With a helix that has no engine braking the heavier setup might be better. I tried a non-EBS helix with the lighter weights and spring and it just freewheeled when you let off the throttle. BD-Xtreme just cut me a helix with a mild EBS curve cut in it. Should put me right where I want to be.
What angle in the helix are you getting from BD-Xtreme?
 

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