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Discussion Starter #1
I have a good friend in the offroad world who is just as interested in the prospect of racing sxs as I am, HOWEVER, he is just flat out convinced that the XP1K is the only answer. So, we came up with a crafty idea. We will be dragging the females to MOAB for a pseudo vacation. Ill be renting a wildcat X and he the XP1K. I have a few trails in mind to help figure out which of these machines is better suited for the racing world. Any suggestions on trails? Keep in mind they are rentals and as much as I want to hit the nastiest stuff out there, I don't want to get creamed by the deposit. I was thinkin of monitor and mirimack (spelling?) hells revenge, fins/things... Any others? Also, any suggestions as to what real world tests will help determine the WEENAH!!! Thanks for the input.
 

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I have a good friend in the offroad world who is just as interested in the prospect of racing sxs as I am, HOWEVER, he is just flat out convinced that the XP1K is the only answer. So, we came up with a crafty idea. We will be dragging the females to MOAB for a pseudo vacation. Ill be renting a wildcat X and he the XP1K. I have a few trails in mind to help figure out which of these machines is better suited for the racing world. Any suggestions on trails? Keep in mind they are rentals and as much as I want to hit the nastiest stuff out there, I don't want to get creamed by the deposit. I was thinkin of monitor and mirimack (spelling?) hells revenge, fins/things... Any others? Also, any suggestions as to what real world tests will help determine the WEENAH!!! Thanks for the input.
PM either mgrotel, or Rockhopper. Those guys are there all the time, they can let you know what's what.
 

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Moab is a good place to rent the machines just not a good place to race. There is a sand dunes there never been to it but maybe there. If you want to run hard stay away from the big name places. Hells revenge, fines and things, chicken corner, cane creek you get the idea. Watch for those peddle boys they have been known to call the authorities. Have fun and be safe.
 

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Oh yeah, I forgot to mention in my PM to you... It may be real hot there now so be sure between blasting for a few minutes you take time to stop and cool the belt on those rental units. (a recovery is spendy)

Also, they may have the tire pressure way too high. One of our guys hated the rented Xp1000 but it had 20 psi in 29" light truck tires... when we let the pressure down he loved it. It was like night and day.
:dance:
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If you're planning to rent a Cat in Moab, I assume you're going to use Dirtseeker? If so, call them or visit their webpage (dirtseeker.com) for a list of banned trails. I was just out there riding last week and had them install new 30" tires and do some clutching work. While I was waiting I noticed a list of trails on the counter that they no longer allow their machines on due to the number of inexperienced people getting stuck or breaking down on them...too much hassle to recover them from. I don't recall the trail names, but I remember being surprised at a few of them since they seemed relatively easy for the Cat in my experience.

The front locker on the Cat gives it a huge advantage in Moab. This year our group consisted of a RZR570 with larger 27" tires, two 4 seater XP1K's (stock 29" tires), and my Cat with 30" tires. There were many obstacles the XP's struggled with due to their wheelbase (2 seater may be a better choice there), and they seemed much more prone to wheel spin as well and had to back up a bit and use momentum to get over bigger obstacles. Overall though, all 4 vehicles did great. I'm even impressed with everywhere my nephew put his RZR570! We did Hells Revenge (once during the day and once at night), Fins & Things, Kane Creek (water level was WAY up!), Steel Bender, Metal Masher, etc. Power was never an issue there as most of the stuff is slow speed. On Steel Bender, I was able to do "The Wall" on the left, center, and right sides no problem and both XP's struggled with the left and wouldn't try the others. Same went for a couple sections on Kane Creek up on the mountainside (not sure what the obstacles are called...one was like a waterfall and one was a boulder field).
 

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I suggested the two I did because of things more akin to race speeds and the gnarly obstacles have alternate paths - seems better for comparing the two machines for race purposes. But yeah, Kane Creek is a blast to do at race speeds - it's the only thing that kinda looks like the bushy, tree lined stuff back east. Might wanna leave the ladies in town for shopping if they don't like getting wet. I suggest doing Kane creek during the week cuz you can't see around the corners and a head-on would wreck your day. (could be more folks out on a week end)

Oh yeah, be sure to get the insurance... this limits your liability to $2000 if you mangle the machine. Sounds dumb but I watched some folks run up a $4500 bill with a little roll over.

I like the way both machines handle at speed (very different feel) but both IMHO need the seat angles and height changed and the steering wheel pulled back 3 to 4 inches along with personalizing the peddles in order to be comfortable at insane speeds.

You guys are gonna need to take a notebook in the machine and do lots of switching off for comparisons back and forth over a particular stretch you determine to be most like your racing conditions.

Ohhhh, your gonna have fun:dance:
 

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Take Rockhoppers advice, he is way more experienced than I and likes to faster paced, race speed type trails. I get more excited about the technical trails like behind the rocks and pritchett canyon, which are mostly slow and technical in nature. Enjoy your time out there and bring lots of water.
 

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I have lived in Moab for 3 years, and a Wildcat will destroy and XP1K out there, which is why I own a Wildcat, haha. On most of the technical trails I like to go on, you're in low range the whole time anyway, so the power of the Polaris doesn't give any advantage. If you want to go fast, try farther up north where the quads hang out, probably some more open space up there. The run out to Wipeout Hill is pretty fun if you like to bomb through the desert. There is some sand up there but it's nothing too exciting, fun when you're just driving past it and go play, but you'll be disappointed if you think it's a destination. Fins is lame, Hells is fun, especially at night coming out of the big hot tub. Pritchett separates the men from the boys, but that's on the banned list for sure. Get the Charles A. Wells guidebook for the trails down there. There's an ATV one and a Jeep one, it's a great book if you've never been there before. Just take his 'difficulty' ratings with a grain of salt, he makes you think it's harder than it actually is IMO.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
All great advice, I am slightly worried about running a rental machine hard, they have over 2k hours, but the guys at dirtseeker were very nice and seemed well informed. I'll look into the banned trails thing. I would like to find myself north of town for sure. I figure some Hells followed with some behind the rock will be plenty of technical. By then the ladies will be spent and it will have cooled down a bit. Then we might find ourselves up north blasting a bit faster. We shall see. Notebook is a MUST, taking real notes in between shit eating grins is going to be rough. Thanks again for all the input, I'll be doing a follow up post for sure.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Ok! So here's my big fat review!!!

That SUCKED.

Admittedly I went into this with some high expectations, shame on me. I got into Moab late friday, all was good. Saturday morning I went to dirtseeker and was looking at the 2 X units they had for rent. One looked good but 2 of the tires had huge gashes in the sidewall, waiting for someone like me to finish them off, that same unit also lacked a roof which was a bummer considering it was mid 90's. I knew heat would be an issue but a roof? C'mon. The second unit was in a little worse shape cosmetically but hey, these are rentals so... That unit had a roof, but it also had a completely bald set of bighorns. I went inside and talked to the owner who was great. A very nice guy but extremely opinionated like most brand specific dealers I have met, no biggy. I was willing to take my chances on either of the units, but then he informed me that the one day rental was actually only until; 5:30pm!!! That was about 9 hours away. I had about 4 other guys in my group planning on a evening/night ride so this was just a huge blow.

I walked 200ft across the road and rented a xp1k for 24hr (also was about $30 cheaper). The XP was already at their satellite store out at the trailhead where we were heading, Perfect! The Rzr Rental place directly across from Dirtseeker was great. The two ladies were sweet as could be, and the mechanics were friendly. They also spent about 30 minutes showcasing their baja 500 XP1K sitting at the store. I had a bajillion questions and they were great. I went out to start the day and found my next surprise. The satellite store was actually 3 zircons, no big. Out came my XP and it looked great, from 50ft. This thing had at least 3 different bodies on it, some with graphics some without. The dealership put on 28" hancook truck tires on all of their machines because the stockers wear out within a month. My particular unit had again, COMPLETELY bald tires (pitbulls actually). They also had about 20psi and made the ride un-godly. More on that; I fired it up and DAMN! They sound better than on You-Tube. It had some serious ASS behind it on the highway, which was about a 1/4 mile leg to the trail. I was getting excited. I met my buddies and off we went. About 1/2 mile into the trail (Gemini Bridges) i was thinking, "huh this thing is kinda rough," and i hadn't even left the forest road. As soon as some bumps showed up I lost all hope. I have never been in anything in my life that felt so rough. My F-150 handles trails better. Im not exaggerating when I say that when the suspension would drop to a certain point it sounded like i was bottoming the belly on a rock. Even better was when I went over a whoop, at full droop there was NO REBOUND, and the shocks just smacked into full extension, it was an awful feeling. Making matters worse was the the steel roof on the XP. No rubber or teflon, just clamps. It was so noisy at different RPM's. I couldnt talk with my wife from 5500-7300 RPM. Then the tires, I aired them down to 10 but they wouldnt grab on anything other than slickrock. I almost slid off the road at 20mph. I kept all this to myself as we had a long trip ahead of us.

We went from Gemini to Rusty Nail, turned around at some crazy climb, then hit Goldbar Rim and took that all the way to Golden Spike. From there we linked up with Poison Spider and saved some french dude's life. He was out of water on a mountain bike, postured up and in rough shape. Apparently he took a detour from his group, and was about 4 hours late to their rendezvous. Meanwhile, we had just encountered sand, and all the ponies in the world wouldnt get my XP to move. So i called the rental place and told them the deal. They were friendly and said if i made it back by closing they would get some other tires on the car. So I left the Frenchman with my allies (they had an extra seat in the XP 1000 4 seater). I had about 3 miles to go on Poison Spider and 30 minutes to get to the rental place in town. Needless to say I flogged that damn thing on the way back, or maybe it flogged me? Either way those of you who know Poison Spider will understand how the beginning of the trail, opposite of the direction we came, has TONS of rocks. At the trail head I encountered Frenchie's wife and in-laws, who flagged me down. I told them he was alive and ok and would be down soon with the others, Instant water works from the wife, it was really emotional.

My wife and I sacrificed our kidneys and made into town with 10 minutes to spare. The mechanic was waiting for me, with the brand new set of BFG MT's on Raceline Beadlocks from the Baja car I looked at earlier, SWEET!! He had them on in 10 minutes and I headed back to the condo. Later that night we went to M&M (Moniter and Merimack)? It was a joy to be out without the sun and the HID's on the 1K's were really great. The new tires were lovely! I felt so much more confident, the smaller rocks didnt hurt my back so bad, and the traction made me smile for once!!! Despite that radical change, the suspension was still garbage. I cycled through the gauge and found that the RZR had 5600 miles on it!!! On a 2014!! That many miles on stock bits in one of the worlds roughest places with 80% Goobers driving it like a bat out-a hell! No freakin wonder. Regardless we finished that ride and i gave it back the next day. Now heres the informative part. One guy in our group had a 1K with less than 200 miles. We did part of the same loop later on and man what a change. That being said, Brand new tires, and fresh suspension still left me wishing for a smoother ride. It deflected hard of the rocks and bucked in the whoops. We played with the clickers but without a rebound adjuster your hosed on really getting that rear end to sit down.

I'll be the first to admit that the power in that 1K is just flat out Nasty! Much like a 450 motocross bike however; most people cant use it to its potential unless you are at the dunes. I can think of one time where i gave it all she had for more than a few seconds. For that reason alone, I was longing for the demo Wildcat X i had recently tested. Will you lose in a straight line? Yes. Its been said a thousand times on this forum and ill admit that I was thinking it was people being biased and trying to justify their toys. BUT, with few exceptions, handling is where it is at. I would have gave up 40hp for a smooth ride because my Ass my back and everything else in that general area was angry. I ended up talking to the same mechanic later, and he admitted that his personal unit is a wildcat X. He raved about it's ride and climbing abilities over the XP. He also thought that the XP for the motor alone is enough reason to use it for a race car, considering all the suspension bits get changed out.

I do apologize, I realize this has been long winded, but I hope it helps the next guy who has the same dilemma. Basically, rental units are not a good representation of a car's ability and i think both Artic Cat and PoPo would be embarrassed by some of the units in circulation. Secondly, truck tires last for ever but man are they rough. Bighorns felt like marshmallows in comparison. Third, no amount of power will make you happier than a smooth ride will, trust me and my hematuria. Lastly, do some digging on these rentals. After it was all over i found another dealer down the road with new 1K's with less than 2k miles and they ran bighorns... UGH



Thanks to those who have helped with this trip, I wish I could have done the shootout as planned, but dirtseeker really put the squash on that. By the way the reason they don't rent over night is courtesy of 7 different DWI occurrences with their customers. I'd be happy to answer any questions.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Larry, the XP was about $400 for 24hrs. The cat would have been slightly more. It's tons of money and would make a better down payment than anything. That said it was still a great time.
 

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Way too much to read, kinda scanned through it. I gather you have never rented before? Rental anything is always going to be beat up vehicles, and usually the renter is hoping something breaks while in your possession. It will never give you a true sense of what the vehicle can do, you just add to the beat down during your rental time. You like everyone else have figured out that great suspension (Cat), usually wins out over horsepower (XP1K), especially if you are on long rides.
 

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Yeah, earlier I meant banned for the rentals. The XP1K's are fast, it's no doubt, but I'm glad you saw the light at the end of the trip and came out another Wildcat man.
 
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