[sand shark]

Man Joey, I hope they come out with that soon so you can, as Hollywood says, blow that lock off your wallet.

There is a better chance you will see a turbo Honda Talon and a 4 seat Talon before Textron gets off their ass and releases anything.

Frozen syrup moves faster then Textron and the sport SXS division.




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[sand shark]

is that seriously the kind of money they are spending on these machines to make them desert racers?

I full blown serious desert race UTV including the purchase of the SXS will be in the 75K plus range. I would hope the one for sale for 112K also includes all the spare parts. I though I ready somewhere a race ready Wildcat XX from Speedcat was 100K, that price included spare parts.

There is a lot work to make them desert race ready. They strip them down to the frame and then remove unwanted tubing and add tubing. Then you have the cost of the suspension, fuel cell and everything else. It adds up quickly.

 

[sand shark]

The xx is doing very well in the Lucas oil series. Jermey houl in his speedwerx car took third in the world championships at Crandon wi last year. There’s was I think 40 cars in that race and he was the only xx driver. He then went to the Lucas oil cup in the western series where he took first on sat and second on sun. Driver mistake on sun costed him the sweep. The first round of the Lucas oil western series a xx took third. He was one of two xx in the field. Lucas oil Midwest series will start in June. Be interesting to see how they do in both series this year only being the second year I existence. The xx is proving itself, just st a slower pace because of the lack of cars in a race. Hard to learn how to dial in a car when your the only one racing it. That will change through time. I know jermey turned a lot of head last year, expecialy when he was passing most of the field. Lol. there will be more xx racing in the Midwest series and will grow in the other. Hard to get teams to drop there already racecars and race something else.

Lucas oil is mostly Polaris and Yamaha in the non-turbo class. Brandon Arthur is racing a wildcat XX this season. I think he got 3rd at the opening round. He is a great driver and will likely be on the podium a lot this season.

Still waiting for a Wildcat XX to consistently finish desert races. RG and his speed cats have been plagued with problems. There is not reason the Wildcat XX is not up in the top 5 consistently in the non-turbo class.



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[sand shark]

Pretty soon the Glamis-ers will want 700hp and 35" paddles to make it up Olds...oh wait... (right colors too)

http://cdn.new 2021 wildcat XXXX.jpg

We don't need Sandrails. Honestly the current turbo offerings are more than enough in stock form. Look no further than the carnage pictures after every holiday weekend. LOL! Joe Fab is laughing all the way to the bank since the turbo models hit the market.

 

[sand shark]

JBL, just get that $6500 kit on a 1000XTR or whatever its called. I will trailer down to Glamis when it suits us both and you pick the testing area and we will see how big of an X3 killer that is. If you win, dinner and beers on me. How does that sound?

JBL will be buying an X3. He knows better than to throw an aftermarket turbo kit on a Wildcat XX.

 

[sand shark]

Lets see...Talon.
24K OTD (for the decent one)
$800 for 30's (or 32's)
$1200 for a gear swap
$800 for springs (depending on the valving...maybe another $800)
$1200 for a real cage
$200 for lower doors

Thats 28.2 K and you might be able to keep up with my 20k XX over the 2 ft whoops.

Looks like a nice start though.

I think the Honda Talon R will keep up with the XX in 2’ whoops. Neither is going threw them comfortably at more than 55 with stock suspension. Sure a driver can have the balls to pin it, but you will be beating the snot out of the car to do it.

The Wildcat XX stock suspension needs help just like the rest of them.

The Talon 1000R has full doors.

Not sure it will need a gear swap to run 32” tires. Watch the Alba video and it seems to pull them. It will for sure pull 30” tires.

I think the pricing will come down on the Honda once the initial rush is over. Kinda like the Wildcat XX pricing tapered off.

The non-turbo market is super competitive with all the choices.


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[sand shark]

Not enough experienced racers racing.
Kolton Husted might finish in the top 5 in points in BITD- my prediction. He will get a podium this year I think.

Seth Quintero is KILLING it right now in NA...picked up Red Bull and he even won the Turbo S giveaway at the UTVWC... #Diamonds

My buds team asked Can AM if they wanted to support an NA car this year...They declined...we would have run the 900 NA X3 if they obliged with some $$$.

Can Am has no real n/a sport model. They stopped making the n/a X3. The Maverick trail is as close as you get from Can Am.

I am surprised that Textron did not approach a seasoned team with a factory ride for a desert season. Robby Gordon will never win in his Speedcat. He drives it like his trophy truck and stuff breaks. Plus when you have Wayne Matlock in Baja to contend with you can just about forget your chances of victory. BITD and putting a team together for the Baja 500 and 1000 is were I would focus a desert effort.

 

[sand shark]

Since you are too lazy to look it up...
Only one Speedcat raced the SF 250...he DNF'd...as did all the others but 2 in the NA class.

UTVWC
3 in the dezert race (44 total entries 50% finish rate)
9th, 16th and 1 dnf

2 in the short course race
13th and dnf (45 entries 66% finish rate)

I do agree we should get back on topic...that the XTR or XX or whatever is the BEST stock NA class car you can buy for the $$$ right now.
I can attest to that...but don't listen to Mr "know it all" ...LOL...ask the experts.

Cheers

At the price point of the Tracker model it is certainly more enticing. Lots of good choices in the n/a segment.

The UTV classes have huge entry numbers in SCORE and BITD. Would of been nice if the SF250 and UTV Championships were not on the same weekend. I saw that the bigger teams had cars at both events.

 

[sand shark]

False. I less than appreciate the jab there but hey, its always ok if you put an "lol" after it right? Fair enough.

Setup changes on how many tools I take, type of fuel I run, tires of course yes, sway bar disconnected or connected, some shock changes, and probably some others I am forgetting off hand. But only a couple of those change the weight. I know you don't like to believe it, but I am more involved than you think and my car is a couple cage welds away from being a full on race car. But go ahead and belittle my build, that is fine with me, no skin off my teeth. Cheers to my dune season starting!!!

I am not belittling you build. Where did that come from? Your reading a little too much into the comment. I don’t recall seeing a picture of your X3 with the dirt tires on it and what ever else you add to go to the desert or Moab.

I was just trying to point out that full desert race UTVs weigh more than 100lbs over you X3. Also that race conditions are different then what most of us experience. So it is plausible that running in 2wd in race conditions will result in harsher conditions for the rear axles and CVs. Thus axle and cv failures sooner rather than later.





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[sand shark]

2100lbs is with me in it, full of fuel, and setup for desert. No spare tools or anything.

So your dune set up with just dirt tires. LOL!! I would think my car in desert form is right around 2000lbs without me or a passenger.

 

[sand shark]

I know...basically what I said when I did the Polaris.
Best upgrade $ for $ on a SxS IMO.

When I did shocks on my XP1000 it was a night and day difference. When I got my X3 I knew I would do shock work before adding any go fast parts.

 

[sand shark]

Ok so I am 100lbs down then, big deal. while I do understand I am not racing, I find it VERY hard to believe the cvs would not make it.

I think it will be much more than 100lbs. 2200lbs seems on the lighter side for a race UTV. I don't think that number he gave included the weight of the driver and navigator. I would venture a guess most fully decked out desert race UTVs would be in the 2400lb -2500lb range with driver and navigator.

Most of the weight is on the ass end of the race UTVs with the spare tire, tools, jack, etc. Just imagine all that extra weight, high speeds, bumps, whoops, jumps, sand washes, etc... and not all the power going to the rear axles. The rear axles are not going to live for long in a desert race.

Was the weight of your X3 in sand form?

 

[sand shark]

I think you are in Kali- correct?
that 23k for most dealers is like 26-27 OTD.
A LOT more coin.
I paid 18600 OTD - registered in Kali.
15k for a beat up year old car is not that much depreciation.
My buddy just bought a used XP1000...has clutch issues already...rolling the dice unless you know where it came from.

What do you think the % of folks buy one of these cars for 20K plus and want an A/M suspension? Probably low single digits.
You do not need that with this car is my point. If you do want it- it is there. There is NOTHING wrong with the fab work on RG's stuff. I would be buying the 1k axles also- dual plunge.
They work awesome in stock trim.
A little tweaking and they work even more awesome.

If I was younger, my brother and I (and a few select friends) would be racing the XX in basic stock form...no doubt. That ship has sailed for me unfortunately.

Let me tell you a little story on the X3 race car my buddy campaigns...Mint 400...he lands on a rock in a G-out at RM 26...Completely destroys the front diff- exploded case...limp to pit A...we take it to BFG pit where they have a grinder set up, we cut off the front axles and run in 2wd...
Now the Can Am rep that was there told us we will blow the rear CV's if we run in 2wd. I SAID, "WHAT" ????? You can't run in 2wd? (car has around 200 hp).
Car is too heavy they say. I say slow down, run lightly up the uphill washes and be a little light footed- keep an extra axle in the car.
My bud listens to the Can AM tech and he parks it after 1 lap (110 miles). (long lap- doesn't want to get stuck way out there)

So as the story goes...we were told we couldn't run the car for extended periods in 2wd...even with heavy duty axles. (Lone Star suspension)
This is a race winning overall Can AM X3.

Now watch the video from Shock Therapy where Justin tells his blown front diff story.

My point is that every car has it's issues. As soon as you start to modify, add weight, leveraged suspension and drivelines, add HP...etc...they become unreliable...you are always chasing something. KISS- Keep it Simple is my mantra.

Do I want the XX to succeed? Hell yeah I do. It's platform is like no other in the industry...precisely why I bought it.
I have a grand total of 20,300 TOTAL into my car - not including a set of paddles and bead locks. Worth every penny so far.

I will get the shocks done some day...as for now, I am adjusting them to my liking in stock form. My brother says he wants the full RG kit with Kings...I laughed and said he wouldn't be any faster or have any more fun with what we ride on. I told him to buy a motorhome with the coin...

When you get your shocks done, you will be wondering why you did not do it sooner. The stock suspension is decent, but holds the car back to the full potential. On my baja trip the guy with the Wildcat XX had killed the skid plates, especially the rear one. This was before he went Dukes of Hazard off the road down 100' feet. After said incident he had a nice size ding in the frame from a rock.

 

[sand shark]

Hmmm, I have 200hp to the wheels, quite a bit more at the crank, yet I ONLY drive in 2wd when in the desert. Weird. Stock axles, 3300 miles on the machine. Something isn't adding up with that story.

Your car does not weigh any where close to a decked out race UTV, nor are you pounding whoops for miles on end at 50-70+mph. I can see where the CVs could get heated up real quick in a race environment. They are no a huge CV on the X3. With that said I would of ran the car until the axles said no more.

Until you have been on a race course it is hard to understand how brutal they get. Especially after the trophy trucks have already gone through. We were on part of the Mint 400 course a few weeks ago. Those whoops are no joke.

 

[sand shark]

i would have to kindly disagree. The turbo market is very small compared to the na. There’s way more dirt/woods riders in this country then dune/sand. Expecialy east of the Mississippi. Dirt/woods/trail riders don’t buy many turbo machines because a turbo isn’t needed. The xx only has been in existence for 1 year and now it’s going to go away next year? It’s takes longer then that to have a strong foot hold in the world market I would think. Textron has to make up for what arctic cat lost over the years and gain after that. The xx is doing a good job so far and is increasing in popularity. Once that is achieved fully then you’ll see a turbo in my opinion. I do think they should come out with a 4 seater though there is a big market for that. A lot of families ride. How has the yahama Yxz servived so far. No turbo or 4 seater there. There’s a kit I guess that the purchaser has to install not the same imo.

The YXZ survives because Yamaha was the first sport SXS with a transmission. They have made major improvements to the YXZ to make it more trail friendly, which will help sells. They have a huge aftermarket for parts and go fast goodies for those that want more power via turbo. Yamaha themselves offer a bolt on kit that keeps the warranty, if dealer installed. I suspect Honda will do the same with the Talon and a turbo option.

Textron first mistake was ditching the Arctic Cat name to begin with. There is a loyal base that loves the AC brand no matter what they put out. Just look at this forum and the Facebook pages with loyal followers. Some simple marketing about how you have a new AC with quality and reliability being the focus would of gone a long way. Look at how Hyundai has changed its image. Textron has take a good thing in the Wildcat XX and done what? What they have now is an image of a company that has no direction in the SXS market and appears to be clueless.

Instead of getting a 4 seater to market they have changed the name back to AC and now you can get it cheaper under the Tracker name. Smells of a company desperate to find an identity in the SXS markert. The have a great promoter to the off-road world in Robby Gordon. He has global appeal. They have done very little marketing with Robby. They have made no effort to market the Wildcat XX. If it was not for Robby Gordon and Speed SXS, there would be no buzz about the Wildcat XX at all.

I agree a turbo car is not a need for all. I would bet there are more turbos selling east of the Mississippi than you think. It is not just dune and desert people buying the turbo models. Would it not be nice for you as the consumer to have the choice between a turbo model and a non-turbo model?

Even if you forget a turbo model, Textron is missing out on the very popular 4 seat market. I know plenty of people that were waiting for a 4 seater and have moved on to other brands.

There is one other issue that Textron needs to address. There is a huge lacking of aftermarket support for the Wildcat XX. I know RG has some patents, but it seems like the aftermarket has not really embraced the Wildcat XX.

Polaris, Yamaha, Can Am and Honda all embrace the aftermarket. Many of the companies get a hold of units before they are released so they can start developing products. This was not the case with the Wildcat XX.

If Textron does not fix this soon, it will sink as the market gets saturated with more choices. If you don't think it can happen, just look at what happen to Honda and Polaris in the watercraft market.

 

[sand shark]

I don't need no stinkin turbo...one of the reasons why I bought this car- best NA out there.
Ask Wayne Matlock about the time his wife won the Baja 500 in a stock motor NA Polaris...inc beating his turbo car.

It's all about suspension and handling...

She is faster than most in Baja. Nope you don't need a turbo for the dirt, but they are sure a lot more fun when they have one.

 

[sand shark]

textron must have polled the xx owners on the wildcat forum on if there is a needed market for a turbo. No, we don't need no stinkin turbski! Lol

lmao!!!!

 

[sand shark]

As long as I can get parts...I really don't care...this car is awesome.

That might get tougher if they end up abandoning the line.

 

[sand shark]

Got some disappointing news. I was told due to Arctic Cat restructuring and new board. They will be halting all new model releases until they can get a handle on the business platform and get the old inventory moved. They don’t want to take huge loses again. They project this could take a year.

So no XX4 for the 2020 model line up.
No turbo XX for the 2020 model line up.
No 72 inch XX for the 2020 model line up. (Did not know that was even a possibility!)

Good news is the XX is Arctic Cats #1 selling machine, and the new deal with Bass Pro & Tracker is a huge win and shows future stability for Arctic Cat. Their not going away, just going to take some time to right the ship.

Also the XX4’s that SpeedSXS will be making will be a Speed custom piece only available through Speed. So if you want any of the models above you will be able to get a custom version from SpeedSXS until Arctic Cat decides to green light and turn on production. Best thing to do is keep calling Arctic Cat and demanding these models. Let them know there is a market wanting them.

Robby Gordon posted on his instagram page he was told in January no 4 seater and no turbo because Textron did not feel there was a market for them. How do they not have their act together and be so blinded by were the market sells units? Good luck on getting rid of the old inventory of Wildcats. Current owners practically have to give them away on the used market.

I guess the good news is the Wildcat XX will be getting even cheaper.

No 4 seater is one nail in the coffin and no turbo sport model from the factory is the other nail. If they don't have anything to offer by 2020 AC/Textron will be all but done in the SXS market within a few years.

I guess the aftermarket was smart in not invested in products for a car that might not be around in the next 2 years.

The Honda Talon is going to take a piece of the non-turbo market and Kawi has something new coming this year. The n/a market will have lots of players and AC might be the odd man out.

Bum deal for sure.

 

[sand shark]

The Talon may pull 30's or 32's...but how is it going to react? I am sure Honda has put a lot of effort into making the gearing, motor, tune all work together...and the trac control.

Easy to say it will "pull" them...in every situation?

It definitely needs at least 29's.

Yeah I am not sure why they would go to a 28" on a 15" wheel. 30" tires stock would of been nice.

30" tires I do not feel will be an issue for the stock gearing. 32" tires in all situations might need some gearing. Have to wait till the public starts bashing them around to really know. I am watching as I want to see how the DCT holds up once the public gets a hold of it.